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Chebucto Regional Softball Club

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  3. "Two Common Ponerine Ants of Possible Economic Significance”
A forum for discussing and organizing recreational softball and baseball games and leagues in the greater Halifax area.

"Two Common Ponerine Ants of Possible Economic Significance”

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  • ? Guest

    @futurebird @JeanieBurrell @datarama it’s likely to be not entirely the genius of the ants tending to a passive fungus, I’d suspect the fungus is as much responsible for the worktogethering here, and perhaps induced the ants to do this sort of thing, I wouldn’t put it past a fungus to make an ant do a thing

    myrmepropagandistF This user is from outside of this forum
    myrmepropagandistF This user is from outside of this forum
    myrmepropagandist
    wrote last edited by
    #19

    @u0421793 @datarama @JeanieBurrell

    There are plants that control their ants. There are trees that get ants basically addicted to their nectar, to keep them around as body guards.

    I do think the relationship of the fungi and the attines is most like that of humans and our domestic crops. It's a kind of deep mutual dependency.

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    • book_dragonJ book_dragon

      @futurebird @datarama So these particular ants could not live without their fungi? The fungi has been subjected to selection, but have the ants?

      dataramaD This user is from outside of this forum
      dataramaD This user is from outside of this forum
      datarama
      wrote last edited by
      #20

      @JeanieBurrell @futurebird Leafcutters are *entirely* dependent on that fungus. All those leaves they famously cut aren't for them - they're for the fungus farms. Their digestive system is extremely specialized and they can't eat anything else.

      When young queens fly from the hive, they first visit the fungus farms to bring a wad of fungus with them. They even "feed" it with their own eggs until the first broods of workers can start bringing leaves!

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      • dataramaD datarama

        @JeanieBurrell @futurebird Leafcutters are *entirely* dependent on that fungus. All those leaves they famously cut aren't for them - they're for the fungus farms. Their digestive system is extremely specialized and they can't eat anything else.

        When young queens fly from the hive, they first visit the fungus farms to bring a wad of fungus with them. They even "feed" it with their own eggs until the first broods of workers can start bringing leaves!

        book_dragonJ This user is from outside of this forum
        book_dragonJ This user is from outside of this forum
        book_dragon
        wrote last edited by
        #21

        @datarama @futurebird Oh! Like keeping a bit of my sourdough starter to make more sourdough starter. So that specific fungi is also dispersed by them?

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        • book_dragonJ book_dragon

          @datarama @futurebird Oh! Like keeping a bit of my sourdough starter to make more sourdough starter. So that specific fungi is also dispersed by them?

          dataramaD This user is from outside of this forum
          dataramaD This user is from outside of this forum
          datarama
          wrote last edited by
          #22

          @JeanieBurrell @futurebird Yes. It doesn't live anywhere but their hives; it can't survive on its own in the wild.

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          • dataramaD datarama

            @JeanieBurrell @futurebird Yes. It doesn't live anywhere but their hives; it can't survive on its own in the wild.

            dataramaD This user is from outside of this forum
            dataramaD This user is from outside of this forum
            datarama
            wrote last edited by
            #23

            @JeanieBurrell

            @futurebird can correct me if I'm wrong, but IIRC there are also some aphid species that have become ant livestock and are now completely incapable of surviving without being tended and protected by ants.

            (We apes were latecomers to the domestication and agriculture game, really. 🙂 )

            book_dragonJ 1 Reply Last reply
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            • dataramaD datarama

              @JeanieBurrell

              @futurebird can correct me if I'm wrong, but IIRC there are also some aphid species that have become ant livestock and are now completely incapable of surviving without being tended and protected by ants.

              (We apes were latecomers to the domestication and agriculture game, really. 🙂 )

              book_dragonJ This user is from outside of this forum
              book_dragonJ This user is from outside of this forum
              book_dragon
              wrote last edited by
              #24

              @datarama @futurebird I try to grow roses. Aphids are my nightmare. No chemicals, though. Ladybugs are best bugs!

              dataramaD 1 Reply Last reply
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              • book_dragonJ book_dragon

                @datarama @futurebird I try to grow roses. Aphids are my nightmare. No chemicals, though. Ladybugs are best bugs!

                dataramaD This user is from outside of this forum
                dataramaD This user is from outside of this forum
                datarama
                wrote last edited by
                #25

                @JeanieBurrell @futurebird I live on the fourth floor and have a little collection if indoor bonsai - and one of them *still* got killed by an aphid infestation. How those things managed to get up here I have no idea.

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                • dataramaD datarama

                  @JeanieBurrell @futurebird I live on the fourth floor and have a little collection if indoor bonsai - and one of them *still* got killed by an aphid infestation. How those things managed to get up here I have no idea.

                  dataramaD This user is from outside of this forum
                  dataramaD This user is from outside of this forum
                  datarama
                  wrote last edited by
                  #26

                  @JeanieBurrell @futurebird (I had a *really* nice Chinese sweet plum tree which got killed by aphids. The other plant that got hit was my pre-bonsai baobab, and the only thing that ended up defeating the little critters was chopping off all the leaf-bearing branches entirely and letting it backbud new ones.)

                  myrmepropagandistF 1 Reply Last reply
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                  • dataramaD datarama

                    @JeanieBurrell @futurebird (I had a *really* nice Chinese sweet plum tree which got killed by aphids. The other plant that got hit was my pre-bonsai baobab, and the only thing that ended up defeating the little critters was chopping off all the leaf-bearing branches entirely and letting it backbud new ones.)

                    myrmepropagandistF This user is from outside of this forum
                    myrmepropagandistF This user is from outside of this forum
                    myrmepropagandist
                    wrote last edited by
                    #27

                    @datarama @JeanieBurrell

                    I use a lint roller to remove aphids.

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                    • dataramaD datarama

                      @JeanieBurrell @futurebird Leafcutters are *entirely* dependent on that fungus. All those leaves they famously cut aren't for them - they're for the fungus farms. Their digestive system is extremely specialized and they can't eat anything else.

                      When young queens fly from the hive, they first visit the fungus farms to bring a wad of fungus with them. They even "feed" it with their own eggs until the first broods of workers can start bringing leaves!

                      ? Offline
                      ? Offline
                      Guest
                      wrote last edited by
                      #28

                      @datarama @JeanieBurrell @futurebird I've heard leafcutter ant experts refer to the fungus as "an external digestive system".

                      Also, I believe the fungi have speciated with their ants (as have the parasitic fungi that prey on the farms, as have the waxy bacteria that grow on the ants and provide antibiotics to control the parasites). It's an amazing coevolving little ecosystem

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