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Chebucto Regional Softball Club

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  3. I sometimes see people describing resistance to LLM assisted coding as gatekeeping and I get that, software engineering culture is absolutely rife with gatekeeping, I quite literally dedicated dedicated my career to developer education because I want m...
A forum for discussing and organizing recreational softball and baseball games and leagues in the greater Halifax area.

I sometimes see people describing resistance to LLM assisted coding as gatekeeping and I get that, software engineering culture is absolutely rife with gatekeeping, I quite literally dedicated dedicated my career to developer education because I want m...

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  • Sue SmithS This user is from outside of this forum
    Sue SmithS This user is from outside of this forum
    Sue Smith
    wrote last edited by
    #1

    I sometimes see people describing resistance to LLM assisted coding as gatekeeping and I get that, software engineering culture is absolutely rife with gatekeeping, I quite literally dedicated dedicated my career to developer education because I want more people to have access to these opportunities.

    But here's the thing, in order to fully participate in the world of software you will still need to learn to code, giving people the impression that isn't the case is not empowering.

    Sue SmithS myrmepropagandistF 2 Replies Last reply
    0
    • Sue SmithS Sue Smith

      I sometimes see people describing resistance to LLM assisted coding as gatekeeping and I get that, software engineering culture is absolutely rife with gatekeeping, I quite literally dedicated dedicated my career to developer education because I want more people to have access to these opportunities.

      But here's the thing, in order to fully participate in the world of software you will still need to learn to code, giving people the impression that isn't the case is not empowering.

      Sue SmithS This user is from outside of this forum
      Sue SmithS This user is from outside of this forum
      Sue Smith
      wrote last edited by
      #2

      We also have an obligation to mitigate the harms software systems can cause, and to manage accountability. That also depends on people understanding code.

      More code in the world is going to require *more* people with coding skills, gen AI makes it more urgent that we teach coding.

      Sue SmithS 1 Reply Last reply
      0
      • Sue SmithS Sue Smith

        We also have an obligation to mitigate the harms software systems can cause, and to manage accountability. That also depends on people understanding code.

        More code in the world is going to require *more* people with coding skills, gen AI makes it more urgent that we teach coding.

        Sue SmithS This user is from outside of this forum
        Sue SmithS This user is from outside of this forum
        Sue Smith
        wrote last edited by
        #3

        My less popular opinion is that LLM assisted coding can also be part of a pathway to accessing those opportunities, but not by having the human avoid the code!

        Sue SmithS 1 Reply Last reply
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        • Sue SmithS Sue Smith

          My less popular opinion is that LLM assisted coding can also be part of a pathway to accessing those opportunities, but not by having the human avoid the code!

          Sue SmithS This user is from outside of this forum
          Sue SmithS This user is from outside of this forum
          Sue Smith
          wrote last edited by
          #4

          Over on bluesky where the conversation is *a lot more heated* I've seen folk telling engineering leads they're being unfair in expecting contributors to understand the code in a commit before it can be merged.. That is a recipe for harm without accountability.

          SlightlyCyberpunkA 1 Reply Last reply
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          • myrmepropagandistF myrmepropagandist shared this topic
          • Sue SmithS Sue Smith

            I sometimes see people describing resistance to LLM assisted coding as gatekeeping and I get that, software engineering culture is absolutely rife with gatekeeping, I quite literally dedicated dedicated my career to developer education because I want more people to have access to these opportunities.

            But here's the thing, in order to fully participate in the world of software you will still need to learn to code, giving people the impression that isn't the case is not empowering.

            myrmepropagandistF This user is from outside of this forum
            myrmepropagandistF This user is from outside of this forum
            myrmepropagandist
            wrote last edited by
            #5

            @sue

            The people using the gatekeeping argument have never shown up to fight gatekeeping, you know real gatekeeping in the past. And they won't show up in the future.

            It's silly.

            1 Reply Last reply
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            • Sue SmithS Sue Smith

              Over on bluesky where the conversation is *a lot more heated* I've seen folk telling engineering leads they're being unfair in expecting contributors to understand the code in a commit before it can be merged.. That is a recipe for harm without accountability.

              SlightlyCyberpunkA This user is from outside of this forum
              SlightlyCyberpunkA This user is from outside of this forum
              SlightlyCyberpunk
              wrote last edited by
              #6

              @sue Nobody ever wants to understand the code. Before LLMs it was copy/paste-ing random crap from Stack Overflow or just pushing the button and hoping for the best. I've had colleagues -- professional software engineers with 10+ years of experience -- tell me they "shouldn't have to read" about a command-line script printing one damn line of instructions. "It should just do it! I shouldn't have to care what it's doing or how it's doing it!" Even most coders don't want to code. And they never have...

              ...and this is why there's no end to the bugs and security vulnerabilities. Because nobody wants to know what they're doing. If it compiles, ship it, and fix the bugs when the users find them in production.

              myrmepropagandistF 1 Reply Last reply
              0
              • SlightlyCyberpunkA SlightlyCyberpunk

                @sue Nobody ever wants to understand the code. Before LLMs it was copy/paste-ing random crap from Stack Overflow or just pushing the button and hoping for the best. I've had colleagues -- professional software engineers with 10+ years of experience -- tell me they "shouldn't have to read" about a command-line script printing one damn line of instructions. "It should just do it! I shouldn't have to care what it's doing or how it's doing it!" Even most coders don't want to code. And they never have...

                ...and this is why there's no end to the bugs and security vulnerabilities. Because nobody wants to know what they're doing. If it compiles, ship it, and fix the bugs when the users find them in production.

                myrmepropagandistF This user is from outside of this forum
                myrmepropagandistF This user is from outside of this forum
                myrmepropagandist
                wrote last edited by
                #7

                @admin @sue

                You can't "empower" anyone without ... you know giving them the power to shape these systems and know what's going on.

                If you know what's going on maybe there are some cases where having a LLM write some code for you might save some time. Maybe not.

                But I don't see how it helps much in education?

                The people saying this kind of sound like they think it means one could skip some education. IDK about that one.

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