"If they can be shut off with an over the air command we need to be able to trust the companies that make them."
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I'm thinking about how "security" (virus and hacking protection) is often raised as a good reason to subscribe to automatic updates. Indeed, I allow my iPhone to update itself mostly because I think it's more secure.
But I have never felt comfortable with the way that software just changes whenever it wants.
The interfaces change, the functionality changes. We are promised it's for safety and "improvements" ...
But IDK what if you shipped software that was... complete?
In these days, we always have to wonder:
Security - but for whom?
For you?
For the company that wants to ensure, that you don't do anything with your device/software, they don't want you to do?
For your jurisdiction's surveillance apparatus?
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If a company can make automatic software updates what additional responsibilities should that imply?
Could legislation that holds companies to a higher standard in this area make these updates less frequent and extreme?
It's wild that some of the people most likely to be seeking independence (owners of power walls) have been subjected to this treatment. I hope that they will be very nasty to TESLA about this, go full Karen. I will cheer you on.
@futurebird
A few years ago there was a story about John Deere bricking agricultural equipment in a war zone, which kinda sounds like it would be a war crime
Russians plunder $5M farm vehicles from Ukraine – to find they’ve been remotely disabled | CNN
Russian troops in the occupied city of Melitopol have stolen all the equipment from a farm equipment dealership – and shipped it to Chechnya, according to a Ukrainian businessman in the area.
CNN (edition.cnn.com)
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@futurebird
A few years ago there was a story about John Deere bricking agricultural equipment in a war zone, which kinda sounds like it would be a war crime
Russians plunder $5M farm vehicles from Ukraine – to find they’ve been remotely disabled | CNN
Russian troops in the occupied city of Melitopol have stolen all the equipment from a farm equipment dealership – and shipped it to Chechnya, according to a Ukrainian businessman in the area.
CNN (edition.cnn.com)
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@sabik @futurebird Yo, Russia stole them
Russia did the war crime
Spoils of war are never a right of the occupier.
Thanks for coming to the war crimes 101 talk.@dobetterinstitute @futurebird
Two things can be a war crime -
@dobetterinstitute @futurebird
Two things can be a war crime@dobetterinstitute @futurebird
More broadly, the fact that they can brick agricultural equipment is interesting for a whole bunch of reasons, regardless of this particular incident -
@dobetterinstitute @futurebird
More broadly, the fact that they can brick agricultural equipment is interesting for a whole bunch of reasons, regardless of this particular incidentYo, Ukraine paid for em and paid for the service. Russia didn't pay. Don't be making up rights for war criminals where there isn't one.
Absolutely, you are right about the right to repair and other options. But if consumers buy the product, thats also their right.
You are wrong to plant the right to repair flag on 'Russia, the victim'. Get some moral fiber.
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@dobetterinstitute @futurebird
We aren't talking about whether Russia committed war crimes with this incident; that's a separate discussionWe're talking about whether John Deere committed war crimes, and deliberate destruction of agricultural equipment certainly sounds like it would count
@dobetterinstitute @futurebird
More broadly, what does it mean for a company to have the ability to remotely destroy agricultural equipment in bulk, whether deliberately or inadvertentlyWhat are the security controls on such a capability, for example
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Yo, Ukraine paid for em and paid for the service. Russia didn't pay. Don't be making up rights for war criminals where there isn't one.
Absolutely, you are right about the right to repair and other options. But if consumers buy the product, thats also their right.
You are wrong to plant the right to repair flag on 'Russia, the victim'. Get some moral fiber.
@dobetterinstitute @futurebird
We aren't talking about whether Russia committed war crimes with this incident; that's a separate discussionWe're talking about whether John Deere committed war crimes, and deliberate destruction of agricultural equipment certainly sounds like it would count
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I'm thinking about how "security" (virus and hacking protection) is often raised as a good reason to subscribe to automatic updates. Indeed, I allow my iPhone to update itself mostly because I think it's more secure.
But I have never felt comfortable with the way that software just changes whenever it wants.
The interfaces change, the functionality changes. We are promised it's for safety and "improvements" ...
But IDK what if you shipped software that was... complete?
@futurebird What is "complete" software?
Does complete software have bugs?
Do you want those bugs fixed?
Don't get me wrong. The current situation of every software team everywhere trying to constantly shove more and more "value add" features into old products and breaking them is a problem. Doubly so when you bought a thing for a single purpose and now it's useless for that because they tried to shove in 17 new features, none of which you needed.
But I'm not clear on what the alternative is.
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@futurebird What is "complete" software?
Does complete software have bugs?
Do you want those bugs fixed?
Don't get me wrong. The current situation of every software team everywhere trying to constantly shove more and more "value add" features into old products and breaking them is a problem. Doubly so when you bought a thing for a single purpose and now it's useless for that because they tried to shove in 17 new features, none of which you needed.
But I'm not clear on what the alternative is.
@futurebird Often people like to look back fondly on the days when you bought software on a CD and installed it and that was the software you had. But they also forget that those were the days when 50% of applications shipped with a random version of QuickTime and if you didn't install them all in order of increasing QuickTime versions, everything that needed a newer version than the one shipped with the latest CD you installed would break. They were all "fixed". (Yes. I wrote down the QuickTime versions of every game we had as kids and reinstalled that damn machine, starting with fresh Win95 more times than I can remember. Why do you ask?
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@futurebird Often people like to look back fondly on the days when you bought software on a CD and installed it and that was the software you had. But they also forget that those were the days when 50% of applications shipped with a random version of QuickTime and if you didn't install them all in order of increasing QuickTime versions, everything that needed a newer version than the one shipped with the latest CD you installed would break. They were all "fixed". (Yes. I wrote down the QuickTime versions of every game we had as kids and reinstalled that damn machine, starting with fresh Win95 more times than I can remember. Why do you ask?
)@futurebird Remote bricking absolutely shouldn't be allowed and the company absolutely should be held liable if that happens.
I also don't think it's necessarily unreasonable to expect some separation of feature/UI updates from security updates. However, software teams can only keep fixing so many old versions for so long before the task becomes unbearable. I think we can do more but I'm not sure how much more or where to draw that line or how to regulate it.
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@futurebird Remote bricking absolutely shouldn't be allowed and the company absolutely should be held liable if that happens.
I also don't think it's necessarily unreasonable to expect some separation of feature/UI updates from security updates. However, software teams can only keep fixing so many old versions for so long before the task becomes unbearable. I think we can do more but I'm not sure how much more or where to draw that line or how to regulate it.
@futurebird What I will say, though, is that we absolutely need to kill the entire concept of "value add" in American engineering business culture.
Most of the shit that gets shoveled into consumer products is done in a blind attempt to be able to put something on the side of the box that no one else has on the side of their box. It's a marketing arms race that creates an endless stream of half-baked "features" that no one asked for. Some of them turn out to be useful. Most turn out to be liabilities.
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@futurebird ah, but then how could a million very mid developers called Brad justify their jobs? How would the tech industry(TM) justify constantly replacing things? funny, that. Solaris 10 shipped complete. and it has stayed that way. my Solaris 10 system got a massive patch update a few weeks ago. y'know what changed in the UX? nothing. nothing changed. it just got more secure
@freya @futurebird I'm not saying the Brads of the world are blameless, but we gotta at least throw some shade at the product managers as well, especially if we're talking about every shifting UX.
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"If they can be shut off with an over the air command we need to be able to trust the companies that make them."
-Ben Alexxander on the bricking of TESLA power walls.Remote software updates, feature enabling/disabling, and the most extreme remote bricking raise several "consumer rights" issues that have not been adequately addressed. #tesla #solar #rightToRepair
When I got solar panels and a battery pack for my house; one of my requirements was a system that both would work when the net is down and could not be remotely bricked (by negligence or any other reason).
Which was annoying to have to check, since much of the point is to be able to keep essentials running during power outrages.
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@freya @futurebird I'm not saying the Brads of the world are blameless, but we gotta at least throw some shade at the product managers as well, especially if we're talking about every shifting UX.
Unexpected changes in a user interface are also a safety concern. People may have strict procedures based upon an in interface working in a certain way.
Furthermore, I think it’s an accessibility issue. I know several blind people who count on certain touch-screen buttons presenting in the same location and doing the same thing.
