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Chebucto Regional Softball Club

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  3. Reading a book about a naturalist in Costa Rica in the 70s observing ants.
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Reading a book about a naturalist in Costa Rica in the 70s observing ants.

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  • myrmepropagandistF myrmepropagandist

    Reading a book about a naturalist in Costa Rica in the 70s observing ants. He frames the question of ant communication as "do they *mostly* use stridulations (sounds) or do they use antennae tapping or do they use pheromones?" He concludes that ant communication is "primarily pheromones" and this isn't exactly *wrong*

    The thing is the very ants he was observing were later found to use stridulations too. (Atta Cephalotes)

    The medium is the message and the medium is the ants themselves.

    myrmepropagandistF This user is from outside of this forum
    myrmepropagandistF This user is from outside of this forum
    myrmepropagandist
    wrote last edited by
    #2

    Ants read everything about each other and their environment. The way their sisters move, the food in their crops, they way they smell, the pheromones they release, what they are carrying, which way they are moving, the stridulations they make, all of it is part of gaining a sense of the local needs of the colony. All of it will change the decisions of each individual ant.

    So, it's not like there is a "way" that ants communicate. They are living information for their sisters.

    myrmepropagandistF Mike OlsonM 2 Replies Last reply
    0
    • myrmepropagandistF myrmepropagandist

      Ants read everything about each other and their environment. The way their sisters move, the food in their crops, they way they smell, the pheromones they release, what they are carrying, which way they are moving, the stridulations they make, all of it is part of gaining a sense of the local needs of the colony. All of it will change the decisions of each individual ant.

      So, it's not like there is a "way" that ants communicate. They are living information for their sisters.

      myrmepropagandistF This user is from outside of this forum
      myrmepropagandistF This user is from outside of this forum
      myrmepropagandist
      wrote last edited by futurebird@sauropods.win
      #3

      When I've messed with an ant and return her frustrated and scared from being trapped to her colony her presence causes a visible disturbance.

      She must smell of things that don't belong. If she is upset, her sisters grow upset too. It spreads like a ripple, but if it's just one ant as she calms it's forgotten.

      But, if too many ants in one area are alarmed like that the whole colony may start to "boil."

      Everyone knows what "boiling ants" looks like, but I think I should break it down.

      myrmepropagandistF LeaL 2 Replies Last reply
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      • myrmepropagandistF myrmepropagandist

        When I've messed with an ant and return her frustrated and scared from being trapped to her colony her presence causes a visible disturbance.

        She must smell of things that don't belong. If she is upset, her sisters grow upset too. It spreads like a ripple, but if it's just one ant as she calms it's forgotten.

        But, if too many ants in one area are alarmed like that the whole colony may start to "boil."

        Everyone knows what "boiling ants" looks like, but I think I should break it down.

        myrmepropagandistF This user is from outside of this forum
        myrmepropagandistF This user is from outside of this forum
        myrmepropagandist
        wrote last edited by futurebird@sauropods.win
        #4

        When ants "boil" they are all moving, changing levels and postures, climbing and coming in and out of sheltered areas in a manner that alarms *my* vertebrate mind. I can only see opening and closing mandibles and it's impossible to focus on any one ant.

        A very effective defensive display set off by sufficient danger. And one I think is designed to scare larger disturbances such as curious humans.

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        • myrmepropagandistF myrmepropagandist

          Ants read everything about each other and their environment. The way their sisters move, the food in their crops, they way they smell, the pheromones they release, what they are carrying, which way they are moving, the stridulations they make, all of it is part of gaining a sense of the local needs of the colony. All of it will change the decisions of each individual ant.

          So, it's not like there is a "way" that ants communicate. They are living information for their sisters.

          Mike OlsonM This user is from outside of this forum
          Mike OlsonM This user is from outside of this forum
          Mike Olson
          wrote last edited by
          #5

          @futurebird Does the colony exercise free will? How much response is programmatic due to stimuli, how much to something else?

          myrmepropagandistF 1 Reply Last reply
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          • Mike OlsonM Mike Olson

            @futurebird Does the colony exercise free will? How much response is programmatic due to stimuli, how much to something else?

            myrmepropagandistF This user is from outside of this forum
            myrmepropagandistF This user is from outside of this forum
            myrmepropagandist
            wrote last edited by
            #6

            @mikeolson

            Brother, I can't even tell you if I have any "free will" let alone a box of ants.

            Mike OlsonM 1 Reply Last reply
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            • myrmepropagandistF myrmepropagandist shared this topic
            • myrmepropagandistF myrmepropagandist

              @mikeolson

              Brother, I can't even tell you if I have any "free will" let alone a box of ants.

              Mike OlsonM This user is from outside of this forum
              Mike OlsonM This user is from outside of this forum
              Mike Olson
              wrote last edited by
              #7

              @futurebird see I want to generalize from the ants to us.

              myrmepropagandistF 1 Reply Last reply
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              • Mike OlsonM Mike Olson

                @futurebird see I want to generalize from the ants to us.

                myrmepropagandistF This user is from outside of this forum
                myrmepropagandistF This user is from outside of this forum
                myrmepropagandist
                wrote last edited by
                #8

                @mikeolson

                I don't have a proof, but I think individual ants make tiny ant choices. They do whatever they feel like based on the state of their sisters. I think this is the case because not all ants are the same. Some are bold, some scared more easily, some cautious, some always ready to bite and ask questions later.

                FinC 1 Reply Last reply
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                • myrmepropagandistF myrmepropagandist

                  When I've messed with an ant and return her frustrated and scared from being trapped to her colony her presence causes a visible disturbance.

                  She must smell of things that don't belong. If she is upset, her sisters grow upset too. It spreads like a ripple, but if it's just one ant as she calms it's forgotten.

                  But, if too many ants in one area are alarmed like that the whole colony may start to "boil."

                  Everyone knows what "boiling ants" looks like, but I think I should break it down.

                  LeaL This user is from outside of this forum
                  LeaL This user is from outside of this forum
                  Lea
                  wrote last edited by
                  #9

                  @futurebird
                  If you take an ant from the house and put it in the yard, what happens to it? I don't see how it could find its way home unless you just happen to put it near its nest, which is unlikely. So I was wondering if it's just either torture or a death sentence to do this and if so is there a better option (I don't want a scout going back and getting a whole army to follow it back into the house).

                  myrmepropagandistF 1 Reply Last reply
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                  • LeaL Lea

                    @futurebird
                    If you take an ant from the house and put it in the yard, what happens to it? I don't see how it could find its way home unless you just happen to put it near its nest, which is unlikely. So I was wondering if it's just either torture or a death sentence to do this and if so is there a better option (I don't want a scout going back and getting a whole army to follow it back into the house).

                    myrmepropagandistF This user is from outside of this forum
                    myrmepropagandistF This user is from outside of this forum
                    myrmepropagandist
                    wrote last edited by
                    #10

                    @leadore

                    If they can't make it back to their home nest they will probably be killed by other insects or ants trying to find their way home.

                    1 Reply Last reply
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                    • myrmepropagandistF myrmepropagandist

                      @mikeolson

                      I don't have a proof, but I think individual ants make tiny ant choices. They do whatever they feel like based on the state of their sisters. I think this is the case because not all ants are the same. Some are bold, some scared more easily, some cautious, some always ready to bite and ask questions later.

                      FinC This user is from outside of this forum
                      FinC This user is from outside of this forum
                      Fin
                      wrote last edited by
                      #11

                      @futurebird @mikeolson i spend a lot of time with regular wasps due to me easily befriending them (as much as one can be a friend with an animal that doesn't really understand you anyways) and I have witnessed a wild variety of individual behaviours in them too.

                      i'm not sure how much individuality is in them, but I am very sure there is at least some and that each of them indeed does have a tiny little personality on their own.

                      i think this year i should try to befriend the local hornets and look how much individuality they show to get another opinion form the animal kingdom

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