I think it's a point of disconnect between wealthier Democrats and everyone else. Liberals hate the idea of imposing culture because assimilation can be a violent process.

But some of the people who you think may be helped have already faced and struggled with assimilation ...with being a *foreigner*. And realistically NOT having a clear process causes more harm. It's this performative tangle that keeps causing harm.

Some people just like things how they are now and don't want it to change.

And Democrats are terrified of anyone thinking that they would make a clear citizenship process that might lead to them winning more votes.

You aren't fooling anyone, but you *also* aren't getting all of those votes. How do they crash and burn so badly?

It's like they are scared to openly advocate for their people. Or in other cases they just don't care. But the right has everyone thinking they do.

I guess I'm suggesting that a clear hard line policy that's inclusive is better than a hard line policy that's exclusive and racist.

Though what the Republicans are doing isn't "clear" it's just hard line. They put the line wherever they feel like it. Mostly to box out people they don't like at any given moment.

But Republicans *say* things that sound much more clear.

Most Republicans think that "millions of illegals" vote. Democrats worry and fret about dispelling this myth in the worst way possible. Not by saying they think there should be a clear path to citizenship with reasonable rules because a lot people who can't vote should. But rather by saying "no Biden was VERY tough on the border"

That makes it sound like people can come over the border and just start voting which is bonkers.

@futurebird

Both parties reinforce the same myths, both parties have the same basic policies. Obama still has the record number of deportations both in absolute terms and per unit of time, and his policy and rhetoric empowered Trump now.

@richpuchalsky @futurebird So you telling me you wouldn’t rather have Obama in the White House right now? They're both basically the same right?

@trisweb

Blue MAGA is tiresome. I'm an anarchist and I don't think the US state should exist.

None of what you write here is going to change the actual facts that I brought up.

@futurebird

@richpuchalsky @trisweb

What will that do about ICE or the laws the govern citizenship for us in the Bronx? What do you think we should be doing?

@futurebird as a former immigrant in the US, the belief that there is a path to citizenship for anyone who "comes in the right way" or just "does their paperwork" was immensely frustrating to me.

Everytime I saw a Democrat response to bad faith Republican talking points, I just wanted to go be like "why can't you just spell out that there IS NO PATH to citizenship or even legal permanent residence, to a lot of folks who came in the "right way", who "did their paperwork", — yes, even to folks privileged enough that they are fluent in English (and quite a few even have higher ed degrees), and fully understand the process, and all of the legal options available to them".

Also, claiming asylum after crossing the border IS a valid legal pathway, and it was also frustrating to watch everyone accept that it's not just because Trump said so, and Biden not only not reverting that, but doubling down on even more roadblocks to a valid legal path.

@futurebird

I think that you should stop supporting American institutions. Do a community defense and mutual aid organization, start building dual power that will leave people less reliant on the state. Treat all politicians the same way you'd treat local drug kingpins: be wary, but no respect and no illusions that they will help.

@richpuchalsky
what you wish is irrelevant to reality and what moral choices are available to you.

@trisweb @futurebird

@iinavpov

another "genocide is irrelevant, you must comply, no other choice is possible" guy

@trisweb @futurebird

@richpuchalsky @iinavpov @trisweb

This was a conversation about immigration in the Bronx?

@richpuchalsky
it's fascinating how putting the guy who loves Netanyahu in charge apparently didn't cause anyone to reconsider their idiotic stance.

@trisweb @futurebird

@iinavpov @richpuchalsky @trisweb

This was a conversation about immigration in the Bronx.

@richpuchalsky

I already participate in mutual aid a great deal. We run a food pantry, help people find housing, legal help, landlord help all kinds of things.

What are we supposed to do in addition (and we don't really have any extra time or money but if we did, or if we cut back on that other stuff) what are you talking about? Starting a militia?

Trying to build a wall around the Bronx?

@futurebird

For Dual Power things, I think one of the best practical organizations is Cooperation Jackson:

Cooperation Jackson

building a solidarity economy anchored by a network of cooperatives and other types of worker owned and democratically self-managed enterprises

Cooperation Jackson (cooperationjackson.org)

Can you keep Us cops/troops from entering the Bronx? No. Would political victories help with this? Also no.

@richpuchalsky

Everything we do is based on the issues that people raise. No one cares about that.

If there were a better path to citizenship it could change many people's lives.

This is a real thing not some abstract idea.

@richpuchalsky

IDK Rich sometimes it feel like we are by the side of the road with a broken car with steam coming out of it in the middle of the desert and you sort of walk up and say "Driving is ruining the planet, we should have a high speed rail network."

And ... yes? we should however, about the car.