Your fighter is gonna be very disappointed when they find out which level they get action surge at

>If you don't mind indulging me, could you elaborate on what you like better about GURPS? I tried to get into it, but was quickly put off by its extreme granularity. Gladly, any chance I can get, tbh. The base system is very simple: for anything you're trying to do, the GM determines what the relevant skill is, and what situational modifiers make that attempt easier or more difficult, roll 3d6 ≤ skill level ± modifiers. With the exception of rolling damage and a handful of other situational things (Reaction, Self Control, etc.), basically everything you do mechanically will be that same Success Roll (3d6 ≤ Skill Level ± Modifiers). All the granularity comes down to determining your Skill Level and relevant Modifiers. The point buy character creation is awesome, it's really it's own mini-game. You have total control over what you're able to do, and good at (within the confines of your specific setting). I got fed up with trying to build a character concepts within the D&D creation options. It got to where I was cobbling together races and classes and subclasses and feats and multiclass dips to try to approximate an idea, picking up all sorts of baggage I was never going to use and only halfway getting to what I envisioned, and even then only by the grace of a tolerant DM. I like making *exactly* the character I want, and not worrying that it's going to be some half-baked novelty or an overpowered munchkin. I got bored making D&D characters after like 7 or 8; they're all either the same basic mechanic build with a personality swap, or basically useless in play outside very specific conditions. >The foreword also said something along the lines of, "here's the most important rules, you can ignore the rest of this book and still play GURPS just fine" ...but that sounds like the same thing you're complaining about with D&D? The difference is: D&D touches vaguely on a subject, or doesn't touch on it at all, and tells you to fill in the rest ; GURPS gives you more options than you can ever use, and tells you to pick and choose whatever helps you in your story and setting. When considering value as a game system, I much prefer being given a selection to choose from than bare bones that I'm *forced* to expand on. Again, it comes down to design, balance, and playtesting. GURPS gives you balanced mechanics to incorporate as you please, D&D forces you to come up with adjudication on the spot and pray that it doesn't break anything. It's the difference between being handed a tub of Lego, and a tub of clay. >I know you're frustrated that it's buried in a supplemental text rather than the core rulebook, but I don't know. Should the PHB also have the specific rules for large-scale army battles? Maritime navigation? How to play dragon chess? There's only so much you can fit into the basic rulebook... Where do you find those rules in D&D? A bit in Xanathar, a bit in Tasha, a bit in Volo, a bit in Saltmarsh, a bit in SCAG, more bits sprinkled around. GURPS has plenty of supplementals, but the organization and density of content is miles better. In GURPS, the basic stuff to build most characters, and the core mechanics are in Basic Set Characters. The advanced mechanics are in Basic Set Campaigns. The advanced rules for magic are in Magic. The advanced rules for melee combat are in Martial Arts. The rules for space stuff are in Space. The rules for sci-fi technology are in Hi-Tech. There are dozens of short supplementals for Mass Combat or Social Engineering or Psionic Powers. Everything is modular, indexed, and extensively cross-referenced. If I want to use a special mechanic, I don't have to guess where it is and go digging. I go to the book that makes sense and check the contents or index, and I can find an obscure rule within a minute. If a mechanic interacts with another, it'll tell me. Personally, I love the granularity. For as much as D&D focuses on combat, it's so *boring*. Roll to attack, miss AC. Roll to attack, hit AC, roll damage. Some classes sprinkle some extra damage for certain conditions, and wizards get a little more creative utility, but otherwise that's it. GURPS has superior mechanics for defense, grappling, targeted shots, tactical maneuvers, martial arts techniques, shock, wounds. All optional, but you do have *options*, and you can use that options creatively. The main problem OP cited, not being able to multi-subclass, can't happen because there are no classes. Choose whatever abilities and attributes suit your character concept, campaign setting, and budget. The only time it restricts you from doing something is when you try to take things that contradict each other (like being Wealthy and Dead Broke), or break the balance (like adding over 80% Limitations on a Trait to make it super cheap). Oh yeah, Enhancements and Limitations, another awesome level or granularity that let's you *further* fine tune your Traits to align *exactly* with your concept. Honestly, I could gush about this system all day. I could never imagine going back to 5e.

You don't need that much traction on a high gravity planet and the two extra wheels become unnecessary. On the Moon, Mars, or anywhere else where the gravitational acceleration is below 5 m/s², you want six wheels, because at least two of them will always not contact the ground due to poor traction and movement over uneven terrain.

Do you happen to read Brust? This reads very Brust.

More wheels is also good on low traction surfaces, or to reduce ground pressure. An extra axel can also reduce the chance of beaching on rough terrain.

Multiclassing because it's fun even if it doesn't work that well will always have a place in my heart. I'm currently playing a barely-functional monk/druid. I think I can get him to work, but right now his tiger wildshape is more of the paper variety

The joke's on you: thanks to min-maxing, the fighter can't count in the first place!

Why does this sound so familiar?

Warlock: I promised my soul in exchange for great power. Rogue: To which great power? Warlock: All of them. Let them fight over it when I am dead.

It's really something that comes down to personal taste. I've played 5e for 6 years, and I've been playing a GURPS campaign for about 7 months. It's Apple vs. Android. Some people just want to pick it up and play. Some people need that level of customization or the experience isn't enjoyable. D&D is much easier to pick up. The book says pick a race (species now I guess), class, and background. It even suggests a background and starting gear. If you want, you can customize these two things as much as you like, and picking variant human means picking up a feat at 1 for further refinement. Plus you likely also have some spells or race/class traits to pick from. That's a fair amount of customization at level 1. Compared to GURPS, you have an OCEAN of options right off the bat. Even if you only have 40 character points, you could spend them in more ways than is possible to experience in a lifetime. The Basic Set alone is massive, and the system has more supplemental material than even D&D 3.5. You can pick some skills and not realize you're missing very fundamental things like 'will my strong fighter guy fail every jump attempt he tries' or 'can I even use any weapon besides a sword' because I didn't invest in that. I love both systems, and neither one is perfect. Working around the limitations of 5E is actually a lot of fun, but so is making a mutant extra-dimensional spellsword ogre with color blindness, universal digestion, an honest face, and coitophobia.

I have a hard enough time finding people and a schedule for mainstream games. Where the hell am I going to find people who want to GURP with me?

"That's great news! That means all your actions and damage don't count!" - The DM

Pathfinder 2.0 sidestepped this issue by having class-specific feats instead of subclasses. Just pick which features you want dude, no need to be silly about it. And you get a new choice of class specific feats often.

Very true. If you want to just plug and play, and get going in 15 minutes without thinking about it too much, D&D is fine. When you start bumping against its limitations, like wanting to take multiple subclasses, it's time to consider a system with more freedom.

I don't need to buy a set of books to give me permission to use my imagination, and I don't need it's permission to disregard rules that don't serve my campaign, or homebrew my own. Every ruleset of every tabletop game is optional. Sure, ignoring some rules can unravel the system, but every table is free to make that choice. I buy a set of books because I want an exhaustive set of balanced and play tested rules. I am under no obligation to use every rule, but I want to have them so I know if I choose to use them, or isn't going to break the balance. For instance, I've fully moved to GURPS. It has a reputation for being complicated because there are *lots* of mechanics available. I ignore the vast majority of them most of the time, but when a player wants to do something out of the ordinary, I can count on having a balanced mechanic available for guidance. I didn't have to worry about being too strict, or too lenient, or inconsistent the next time the same situation arises. 5e isn't "permissive", it's lazy game design. I quit after buying the Spelljammer set, which provided basically zero guidance for any of the actual spell jamming stuff. When the answer to every question is "The DM can decide to do it however they want :)”, you're not actually releasing a game system. Again, I don't need to buy a book to have permission to use my imagination however I want. I buy a book to give me balanced and playtested mechanics. WotC doesn't seem particularly interested in that.

I think it's better to think of all the add-ons and supplements as GM inspiration, rather than hard and fast rules. Most everything in GURPS is set up to arrive at a skill roll or attribute modifier; so even if you don't remember a particular rule for a particular edge case, you can generally eyeball it and come up with a modifier pretty close to what's in the books. The books give a *lot* of guidance on how to reach that modifier, though; and give you enough information to feel comfortable coming up with your own modifiers outside of what they outline. I feel like that's a lot of what GURPS brings to the table - a simple system, with an internally consistent set of guides about how easy or hard a given action might be.

"Yeah, but neither does the damage I take!" _\*proceeds to do nothing but play on his phone for the session\*_ - The Hypothetical Fighter I Now Hate Also, you have an incredibly appropriate username for this conversation. Have you taken steps along the Path of the Muscle Wizard? (Swipe typing autocorrect turned "steps" into "steroids" three times in a row. I think my phone is becoming sentient.)