@faithisleaping

I think that adults don't do anything about the bullying and have not created any way for students to say it is happening is the real failure.

And if kids want to use the wider internet they still can. I just think what we have now is by default exclusionary since only those kids with parents who help them use the internet, or those with parents who don't care know what's going on at all.

@futurebird Yeah I imagine this has gotten a lot better since when I was there, and that it's a lot better in urban and public education settings compared to rural and private.

@futurebird @faithisleaping
Beyond just not doing anything about bullies, the school system I went to treated *me* as the problem for 1) *being* bullied, 2) honestly expecting teachers to do their alleged job in stopping bullies, and 3) just generally not fitting in (*especially* because "fitting in" is what girls are "supposed to be" good at).

I half-wonder if some faculty secretly thinks bullying is a *good* thing that punishes misfits for them.

@pteryx @faithisleaping

"I half-wonder if some faculty secretly thinks bullying is a *good* thing that punishes misfits for them."

There are adults who think this. They are real and they are incorrect.

No, I can't make an outcast kid feel like they are a part of the class 100 percent. But, I can make them feel like they are just as valued as everyone else and deserve to be treated with respect.

Teens don't like it when you point out they are being a jerk. They will stop, or tone it down.

Why do schools have dances? Why do many high schools host parties, sometimes inter-school parties at the school?

A school isn't just a machine that puts knowledge into people's brains, it's an organization of people. And those people will want to celebrate together from time to time. This WILL happen. "official" events can be more inclusive.

But also for young people it's a part of social education, providing some baseline for how you interact with other people.

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@futurebird

I realize this isn’t about the social aspect, but I do wish that the music at dances wasn’t at literally deafening levels. I’m fairly certain a good percentage of my hearing loss is from attending high school dances where my ears were left ringing afterwards. My two kids who attended one during their middle school years both refused to go to a second one because the decibel level was painful for them.

We don’t need to harm kids’ hearing for them to have a good time together.

@pteryx @faithisleaping

In fact, I've seen some pretty dramatic changes just from pointing out that "no one wants to be treated like that" and "you are being mean."

It's your job if you are the adult.

@futurebird @faithisleaping
I'm pretty sure the majority of my own bullies knew damned well that they were being mean and no one would want to be treated the way I was; beyond merely not caring, they actively wanted to harm me specifically. There *was*, however, a minority who didn't actually *want* to bully me and was peer-pressured into it.

@pteryx @faithisleaping

"I half-wonder if some faculty secretly thinks bullying is a *good* thing that punishes misfits for them."

There are adults who think this. They are real and they are incorrect.

No, I can't make an outcast kid feel like they are a part of the class 100 percent. But, I can make them feel like they are just as valued as everyone else and deserve to be treated with respect.

Teens don't like it when you point out they are being a jerk. They will stop, or tone it down.

@futurebird @pteryx @faithisleaping

I had a teacher in high school ask the whole class at the beginning of the period to pray for me since I hadn’t let Jesus into my heart. Good times.

What is more true is the adults don't want to bother to set it up.

Just like no one really wants to chaperone the dance.

But we have figured out that NOT having the dance is worse.

It will leave some kids locked out socially, others will create events that are too adult or unsafe.

We need to show them how it could work. Part of the obstacle to doing this is how few *adults* know how to use social media in a constructive way. So maybe we all need lessons.

I think that schools should take on this role.

You could have a server for a school with mastodon, but not connected to the rest of the fedi, you could network with similar schools. Just like at the school dance the teachers are around so there are limits to how it's used.

Teens could post about their soccer games, advertise their clubs, make jokes, practice using the medium wisely.

When teens post to social media they care about their friends at school seeing the post most. 4/

@futurebird This is a great idea, but in the US, schools will be unwilling/unable to take on the legal responsibility/liability for such a structure.

@futurebird This is a fascinating idea and you've used an excellent social education metaphor in the school dance.

The great roadblock I anticipate would need to be overcome would be the legal liability, followed by the political and moral panic.

I was about to say no one freaks out about teaching math—but yeah, they do. Folks definitely freak out *more* when educators teach social skills or anything bordering on someone's idea of morality. This'd allow students to express themselves. Oh no!

@ELS

Schools have email and this isn't an issue? What new liabilities would be raised?

@futurebird I’m imagining that school email is not anonymous and I guess you’re imagining something more benign than current “wild” social media, where people feel that they can hide behind anonymity of a handle. If everyone were identified and there was true investment in moderating the network, it might work pretty well.

@ELS

I don't really see the point of having an anonymous network inside of a school. Hadn't even thought of doing that.

@futurebird Is the in-school email network limited to inside school? We have a university email network (actually, it’s gmail, but with the school edu handle), and everyone has an identifiable name, but it connects to the wider web. One thing I think that’s been specific to social media is that accounts can be “anonymous.” So, when you described an in-house social media network, I didn’t think through the possibility that accounts would never be anonymous. Anonymous accounts make the admin more responsible because blame cannot be assigned to anonymous individuals.

I've had people hear this idea scoff saying "teens will never use it" I don't think this is true. They ALL come to the dances, even though they are "so boring" -- and I think at some level they would feel better having a safer place to express themselves in photos, videos and writing for each other without every creep on the internet looking in on it.

Will some teens still find internet "after parties" Yes.

But right now we are basically saying you can go to the afterparty or NOTHING.

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