In the most general sense who is *more* likely to remember and hold to account a famous person who cheats on their committed partner having been transparently dishonest with them about the nature of that long term commitment?
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@futurebird Frankly, it's a personal thing and nothing to do with us, unless there's rank hypocrisy involved.
I may have been in France too long...
Yeah you've been in France too long. They really do not care and I guess I'm a nebby and puritanical American.
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This also wouldn't happen if it wasn't "real cheating" eg. it was an open relationship.
Nonetheless the left loooooves little cake topper couples in every variety. (gay ones too) and is endlessly confused by the trainwrecks that go by without comment all over the right.
Personally I think everyone has bright red lines of morality with respect to relationships. The right likes to describe the left as having no such lines but it really isn't true. They are just lines based on a different set of values.
The left wing values are centered around concepts like consent, honesty and being true to yourself.
Right wing values are centered around supporting social norms and not confusing people by being "abnormal."
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In the most general sense who is *more* likely to remember and hold to account a famous person who cheats on their committed partner having been transparently dishonest with them about the nature of that long term commitment?
(I'm trying to tease out the concept of dishonestly and breaking promises in relationships from "family values" which is a loaded phrase.)
@futurebird My first thought was that right wingers will hold cheating against a woman, but not a man. My second thought was that they will hold it against a man if they don't like him, too.
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@futurebird My first thought was that right wingers will hold cheating against a woman, but not a man. My second thought was that they will hold it against a man if they don't like him, too.
I think everyone will amplify these feelings if you already don't like the person.
But consider if our new left wing mayor of NYC were IDK caught with some hookers.
I think it'd be a huge disaster for him! And not just because the right would make a huge deal about it. Large portions of his base would flip out... because he's married. And we think that's so cute and he would have RUINED it.
(if he weren't married nobody would care as much)
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My perception is that across the left including liberals relationship fidelity isn't talked about much but "cheaters" are punished by the public with more consistency and less likely to *ever* be forgiven.
On the right you hear about "family values" all the time, and one would think that a "cheater" would be in big trouble ... but... it just doesn't really matter that much to them.
A gay liberal politician who *dishonestly* cheated on his husband would lose more support than a right winger.
@futurebird The difference, in my opinion, is the notion of authority/hierarchy. That is a really strong value for right-leaning folks. There are times, it seems, when it overrides something like fairness/truth.
Sometimes one cannot uphold truth without violating authority. That seems to be a conflict that resolves in favor of authority a lot for the right and rarely on the left.
The left has famously very little regard for authority unless truth, justice, fairness, etc are all upheld. The left values fairness and truth above all else.
So liberal folks tend to be less conflicted about what to do when an important person violates fairness, truth, justice, etc.
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@futurebird The difference, in my opinion, is the notion of authority/hierarchy. That is a really strong value for right-leaning folks. There are times, it seems, when it overrides something like fairness/truth.
Sometimes one cannot uphold truth without violating authority. That seems to be a conflict that resolves in favor of authority a lot for the right and rarely on the left.
The left has famously very little regard for authority unless truth, justice, fairness, etc are all upheld. The left values fairness and truth above all else.
So liberal folks tend to be less conflicted about what to do when an important person violates fairness, truth, justice, etc.
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Personally I think everyone has bright red lines of morality with respect to relationships. The right likes to describe the left as having no such lines but it really isn't true. They are just lines based on a different set of values.
The left wing values are centered around concepts like consent, honesty and being true to yourself.
Right wing values are centered around supporting social norms and not confusing people by being "abnormal."
Right wing social norms strongly disincentivize confronting infidelity. Women who are cheated on find themselves without a support network if shameful behavior within their family group comes to light. Divorce is considered a sin, far worse than infidelity. Women are expected to tolerate and forgive endless bad behavior from their spouses, but forgiveness for the male in-group isn't extended towards the out-group, which is where divorced women and single mothers find themselves. And the role of women tends to be economically and socially dependent on their husbands.
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Right wing social norms strongly disincentivize confronting infidelity. Women who are cheated on find themselves without a support network if shameful behavior within their family group comes to light. Divorce is considered a sin, far worse than infidelity. Women are expected to tolerate and forgive endless bad behavior from their spouses, but forgiveness for the male in-group isn't extended towards the out-group, which is where divorced women and single mothers find themselves. And the role of women tends to be economically and socially dependent on their husbands.
So a lot of this might just be the sexism.
As is often the case it seems. -
In the most general sense who is *more* likely to remember and hold to account a famous person who cheats on their committed partner having been transparently dishonest with them about the nature of that long term commitment?
(I'm trying to tease out the concept of dishonestly and breaking promises in relationships from "family values" which is a loaded phrase.)
@futurebird in right-wing circles, keeping promises is very much a one-way street; keeping promises made to those higher up in the hierarchy is required, but for those high up in the hierarchy, the freedom to break promises to underlings for the most trivial of whims is the entire point of having power; a right-winger who can't burn his underlings for the silliest of reasons does not have a place in the hierarchy, by definition.
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In the most general sense who is *more* likely to remember and hold to account a famous person who cheats on their committed partner having been transparently dishonest with them about the nature of that long term commitment?
(I'm trying to tease out the concept of dishonestly and breaking promises in relationships from "family values" which is a loaded phrase.)
I was thinking about this post and I think I was remiss to not mention the class angle to all of this.
We did talk a bit about how the *very* powerful and wealthy (men) may get a free pass for infidelity. But, also sometimes a family is "messed up" because there isn't enough money to get married, get divorced, move out, move in etc.
Sometimes when I've seen people grousing about Sarah Palin's extended family it feels a little ... classiest. IDK.
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I was thinking about this post and I think I was remiss to not mention the class angle to all of this.
We did talk a bit about how the *very* powerful and wealthy (men) may get a free pass for infidelity. But, also sometimes a family is "messed up" because there isn't enough money to get married, get divorced, move out, move in etc.
Sometimes when I've seen people grousing about Sarah Palin's extended family it feels a little ... classiest. IDK.
OMG these people are so trashy WHY don't they just... get another house. WHY don't they enroll the bored and unruly child in some... activities?
Though. Maybe Mrs. Palin could have gotten another house.
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In the most general sense who is *more* likely to remember and hold to account a famous person who cheats on their committed partner having been transparently dishonest with them about the nature of that long term commitment?
(I'm trying to tease out the concept of dishonestly and breaking promises in relationships from "family values" which is a loaded phrase.)
i’d say it’s a wash but for different reasons. The Left is more inclined to let personal matters staystay personal, even if that was wrong (ex. Bill & Hillary). The right is more inclined to be hypocritical (Bill vs Donald).
