If torpor isn't defined by body temperature but it's about "metabolic rate" then why is the diapause of the ants (other insects also participate) not considered torpor?

Further if a long torpor is a hibernation why correct people who say "the ants are hibernating"

"the ants are in diapause" is more correct. But I thought this was because only endotherms could hibernate.

I am confusion.

@futurebird

Incidentally I had a convo with my cousin a biologist and retired educator about endotherm/exotherm vs endotherm/ectotherm

if you're discussing a chemical reaction, that is not life, you say endothermic for one that absorbs heat from its surroundings and exothermic for one that emits heat to its surroundings... 1/2

If torpor isn't defined by body temperature but it's about "metabolic rate" then why is the diapause of the ants (other insects also participate) not considered torpor?

Further if a long torpor is a hibernation why correct people who say "the ants are hibernating"

"the ants are in diapause" is more correct. But I thought this was because only endotherms could hibernate.

I am confusion.

If torpor isn't defined by body temperature but it's about "metabolic rate" then why is the diapause of the ants (other insects also participate) not considered torpor?

Further if a long torpor is a hibernation why correct people who say "the ants are hibernating"

"the ants are in diapause" is more correct. But I thought this was because only endotherms could hibernate.

I am confusion.

@futurebird
Isn't hibernate from winter, as aestivate is from summer, conditions?

@Photo55

I don't know anymore.
diapause seems like the most general term? so everything that hibernates is in diapause.

I need an Euler diagram STAT of:

hibernation
estivation (or aestivation?)
diapause
dormancy
brumation
napping
torpor

With the differences and various example animals.

(If AI did what it claimed this would be a great task to ask from AI, but, in fact, this is the kind of thing LLMs are the worst at: making categorizations logically... and not making up animals)

@futurebird This is the kind of data I wish Wikidata had evolved into tracking https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q30090244

@Photo55

I don't know anymore.
diapause seems like the most general term? so everything that hibernates is in diapause.

I need an Euler diagram STAT of:

hibernation
estivation (or aestivation?)
diapause
dormancy
brumation
napping
torpor

With the differences and various example animals.

(If AI did what it claimed this would be a great task to ask from AI, but, in fact, this is the kind of thing LLMs are the worst at: making categorizations logically... and not making up animals)

@Photo55

I don't know anymore.
diapause seems like the most general term? so everything that hibernates is in diapause.

I need an Euler diagram STAT of:

hibernation
estivation (or aestivation?)
diapause
dormancy
brumation
napping
torpor

With the differences and various example animals.

(If AI did what it claimed this would be a great task to ask from AI, but, in fact, this is the kind of thing LLMs are the worst at: making categorizations logically... and not making up animals)

@futurebird
Americans might call it estivation?

@futurebird @Photo55 can we add brumation to that list too because I do _not_ understand

@futurebird @Photo55 can we add brumation to that list too because I do _not_ understand

@moira @Photo55

I sometimes do a little assembly about ants for kids, naturally I like everything to be correct, so I've been careful for years to always say "where do ants go in winter? they do something like hibernation but since they are insects and not warm-blooded we call it diapause."

Now I need to figure out what to say.

I'd rather just say "ants hibernate in winter" because they do it for the same reason as a bear or mouse, and it's similar in many ways.

But people get mad.

@moira @Photo55

I sometimes do a little assembly about ants for kids, naturally I like everything to be correct, so I've been careful for years to always say "where do ants go in winter? they do something like hibernation but since they are insects and not warm-blooded we call it diapause."

Now I need to figure out what to say.

I'd rather just say "ants hibernate in winter" because they do it for the same reason as a bear or mouse, and it's similar in many ways.

But people get mad.

@moira @Photo55

I sometimes do a little assembly about ants for kids, naturally I like everything to be correct, so I've been careful for years to always say "where do ants go in winter? they do something like hibernation but since they are insects and not warm-blooded we call it diapause."

Now I need to figure out what to say.

I'd rather just say "ants hibernate in winter" because they do it for the same reason as a bear or mouse, and it's similar in many ways.

But people get mad.

@moira @Photo55

I sometimes do a little assembly about ants for kids, naturally I like everything to be correct, so I've been careful for years to always say "where do ants go in winter? they do something like hibernation but since they are insects and not warm-blooded we call it diapause."

Now I need to figure out what to say.

I'd rather just say "ants hibernate in winter" because they do it for the same reason as a bear or mouse, and it's similar in many ways.

But people get mad.

@moira @Photo55

I sometimes do a little assembly about ants for kids, naturally I like everything to be correct, so I've been careful for years to always say "where do ants go in winter? they do something like hibernation but since they are insects and not warm-blooded we call it diapause."

Now I need to figure out what to say.

I'd rather just say "ants hibernate in winter" because they do it for the same reason as a bear or mouse, and it's similar in many ways.

But people get mad.

@futurebird @moira @Photo55

Well, maybe ant *nests* hibernate. I'd bet money that, like honeybee nests, they are endothermic.

@futurebird @moira @Photo55

Well, maybe ant *nests* hibernate. I'd bet money that, like honeybee nests, they are endothermic.