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Chebucto Regional Softball Club

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A forum for discussing and organizing recreational softball and baseball games and leagues in the greater Halifax area.

Math Matters

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rpgmemes
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    wrote last edited by
    #45
    I feel like you've made a lot of assertions that don't make a lot of sense when compared to the real world. I agree that WotC is nothing like they used to be, have been gutted by Hasbro, and 5e is a pretty stale and lame example of a TTRPG. That doesn't make it any less easy to learn or homebrew. The starter sets and basic adventures were simple enough for my mother, a teacher, who has absolutely no TTRPG experience, to run a game with her 5th grade students, who were perfectly capable of handling the premade characters and simple module. The game has a very easy entry point, and even when approaching the full ruleset, isn't hard to understand when actually reading the books (especially the new ones, all their other major flaws aside), which more people do than you're suggesting. New players get excited, the PHB is easy enough to follow with interesting art and ideas, and you really don't even need the DMG to run a successful game, though the frameworks it sets up can make your life easier. There is a reason other than branding that DnD remains as incredibly popular as it is, as no matter how many streamers play it and how much sponsorship money DnD beyond gives out, if new players enticed to try the game couldn't get the hang of it pretty quickly, they wouldn't stick around. Are there better systems for modularity and ease of play? Obviously. But that doesn't make those things untrue for 5e. The million Kickstarter projects with homebrew should be examples enough. You keep asserting that "no one plays 5e as designed," which is technically true if you define that as only using rules strictly in the books, but really misses the point. People are using the classes and mechanics put into the game, and a great deal of official optional rules have become ubiquitous in every game. Popular house rules get added on, and people make up their own mechanics, because it's a TTRPG, and that's true for *any* of them. Obviously there aren't great sources that aren't anecdotal, but a quick glance around LFG posts, LGS events, and online DnD specific communities should be enough to show that people are indeed playing the game "as intended," and home brewing to their heart's content. The reputation you claim 5e has simply doesn't exist to the casual player. You're totally right, in that this is how most dedicated TTRPG communities see the game, but to the casual player (which is most of them), 5e is what the cool streamers play. They watch it, think "Hm, that doesn't look so hard," grab a book and run with it. I've seen this happen repeatedly with friends that have never played a TTRPG in their life. They don't know about WotC's past, they don't know about the company being gutted, and they don't know about the designers abandoning a lost cause. All they know DnD as is the default TTRPG (which it shouldn't be), and pick it up, finding it easy enough to play and homebrew.
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    • Z ziggurat@jlai.lu
      Do some people actually playing RPG care that much about range ? Rather than some guesstimate ? I actually find the Ryuytama range management pretty cool, where you simply say whether your character is *at contact/short-range/long-range/away* and that's it.
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      wrote last edited by
      #46
      A wild Ryutama reference is crazy. What a charming system.
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        wrote last edited by
        #47
        Used it in practice in my head the other day - even nailed the sqrt to a decimal point. I have created human life, but I think I was more proud of this lol
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        • ZagorathZ Zagorath
          Ah right, so "diamond" (depicted as a square rotated 45 degrees) is Manhattan, circle is Euclidean, and square is Chebyshev, then?
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          wrote last edited by
          #48
          yeah exactly. i understand it as follows: - in the manhattan metric, points have length one if the lengths of their coordinates sum to 1. so you get the points (1, 0), (0, 1), (-1, 0), and (-1, -1). and then you connect these four points with straight lines to get the diamond shape. this follows from the observation that if the x coordinate decreases in length by 0.1, then the y coordinate must increase in length by 0.1. - in the euclidean metric, the points of length one lie on the unit circle, since x^2^ + y^2^ = 1 is the equation defining the unit circle. - in the chebyshev metric, points have length 1 if one of the coordinates has length 1 and the other coordinates have a length smaller (or equal to) 1. and these conditions also describe the square with sides x = ± 1 and y = ± 1.
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          • ? Guest
            i wish that it was more common to refer to the metrics in terms of what they are instead of who discovered them. i can’t ever remember off the top of my head if the chebyshev one is supposed to be the diamond metric (L^1^) or the square metric (L^∞^).
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            jmcs@discuss.tchncs.de
            wrote last edited by
            #49
            Chebyshev distance can also be called chessboard distance if you want something more descriptive.
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            • ? Guest
              My group plays pretty loose goosy with the rules. We just look at it and make a quick estimate of whether something looks in range. They also have little range finder tools that are helpful for quickly determine cones, spheres, etc. We're also the kind of party that doesn't really keep track of gold. Apparently gold has a weight? For this reason I actually don't like playing one shots with people I don't know, because they don't play by all of our house rules, lol.
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              wrote last edited by
              #50
              I think you'd like how Exalted handles money. (Note: I'm talking about second edition here; I never got familiar with third edition.) In Exalted, wealth is represented by a Background called *Resources*. Backgrounds are essentially stats that represent useful things your characters has in a general sense like wealth, fame, contacts, or a mentor. They go from zero to five. Resources is a vague representation of wealth. At Reduces 1 you're one meal away from total poverty. At Resources 5 you have something that passively generates substantial amounts of money for your character, whether that's ownership of a lot of land or an army of accountants maintaining your investment portfolio. Whatever is is, it works without you having to deal with it. In terms of game mechanics it's easy to use: Prices are expressed as Resource scores. If you want to buy something you just compare your score to the item's. - If yours is higher, you just get the item as the price doesn't affect your wealth significantly. - If both scores are the same you get the item but have to reduce your Resources by one. This represents you having to liquidate a large amount of your assets to cover the price. - If your Resources score is lower than that of the item, you can't afford it. It's a nice system for a game that doesn't want resource management to get in the way of epic adventure.
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              • ? Guest
                I think you'd like how Exalted handles money. (Note: I'm talking about second edition here; I never got familiar with third edition.) In Exalted, wealth is represented by a Background called *Resources*. Backgrounds are essentially stats that represent useful things your characters has in a general sense like wealth, fame, contacts, or a mentor. They go from zero to five. Resources is a vague representation of wealth. At Reduces 1 you're one meal away from total poverty. At Resources 5 you have something that passively generates substantial amounts of money for your character, whether that's ownership of a lot of land or an army of accountants maintaining your investment portfolio. Whatever is is, it works without you having to deal with it. In terms of game mechanics it's easy to use: Prices are expressed as Resource scores. If you want to buy something you just compare your score to the item's. - If yours is higher, you just get the item as the price doesn't affect your wealth significantly. - If both scores are the same you get the item but have to reduce your Resources by one. This represents you having to liquidate a large amount of your assets to cover the price. - If your Resources score is lower than that of the item, you can't afford it. It's a nice system for a game that doesn't want resource management to get in the way of epic adventure.
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                wrote last edited by
                #51
                Sounds cool, thanks for the explanation!
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                  Ziglin (it/they)
                  wrote last edited by
                  #52
                  Of those that has been the least common at my tables.
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                  • ? Guest
                    It is not really the math, but what I find boring is that 90% of the rules (measured by feeling) are about battle.
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                    sirblastalot@ttrpg.network
                    wrote last edited by
                    #53
                    That's fair. Perhaps another style of DMing and/or a different system are more your speed.
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                    • ZagorathZ Zagorath
                      Fair point. I actually don't know what, if anything, the D&D (or Pathfinder) rules say on this matter. I've always just treated it as a natural 3D extension of the 2D grid rules. If they're three squares in one direction, same square in the other, and 10 feet up, I'd treat that as 15 feet away because of Chebyshev rules.
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                      sirblastalot@ttrpg.network
                      wrote last edited by
                      #54
                      > I’ve always just treated it as a natural 3D extension of the 2D grid rules I believe that's how it's handled in D&D too, or at least how my table has always done it. I meant more as a practical matter, you're very unlikely to have a vertical wall grid and some kind of stand of the correct height for your minis, so you can't just count squares like you would for horizontal movement. That's when the Pythagorean Theorem comes up in my experience.
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                      • S sirblastalot@ttrpg.network
                        That's fair. Perhaps another style of DMing and/or a different system are more your speed.
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                        wrote last edited by
                        #55
                        And there are more then enough systems out there for everyone to find his perfect match and then some.
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                          wrote last edited by
                          #56
                          RAW yes, they're 30 feet away. To avoid trigonometry, I like to run the rule of long distance plus half the short distance. It also lines up with every other diagonal being 10'
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                          • Z Ziglin (it/they)
                            Of those that has been the least common at my tables.
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                            Zagorath
                            wrote last edited by
                            #57
                            The lack of dnd-style multiclassing in Pathfinder was something I struggled with at first, but honestly now (especially with the "free archetype" optional rule) it's one of my favourite underrated things about having switched. It's not as flashy as the 4 degrees of success or three action system, but it's a really great system.
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                              jounniy@ttrpg.network
                              wrote last edited by
                              #58
                              Ironaically enough, you just take either the horizontal or the vertical distance (whatever is longer) instead of calculating. I hate that rule and never use it, but that's what RAW says.
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                              • ZagorathZ Zagorath
                                But D&D uses Chebyshev distance, not Euclidean. No need for Pythagoras. And Pathfinder alternates between Chebyshev and Manhattan to *approximate* Euclidean.
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                                threelonmusketeers
                                wrote last edited by
                                #59
                                Happy cake day!
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