Few things are more confusing and potentially off-putting than something that's aspirational (class based) in a section of culture or society that you don't have much contact with at all or don't understand.
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But the thing I didn't understand was that that "MAGA woman" look that is a little baffling is aspirational. And part of the aspiration is to have people wonder "did she get work done?"
Do you see it now? No one will ever wonder if I've had "work done" I can't afford "work" ... but, the "fakeness" is part of the fantasy and appeal.
I also wonder if being confusing to liberals is part of the appeal. Because, it's the "opposite of a feminist" in their framework.
@futurebird fascist love a uniform. the men have one too it's just not as over the top
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@futurebird So you think the idea is to have people think, "She's had work done"? I hadn't really thought of that.
So similar to fake eyelashes or fingernails that are obviously fake?
I thought it was more trying to look like part of the "in" group, but you may very well be right.
I think it's both. One: showing that your man can afford to pay for all that work to get done. Two: getting those things done that the most popular individual in your group has gotten done.
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@futurebird I live in the Washington, DC area and saw a few dozen ladies with the MAGA aesthetic in person around the time of the inauguration last year. They stood out because nobody in DC does their hair or makeup like that, nor do they wear fur coats!
They look like they subdued their hair with a whole can of hairspray and a curling iron while getting TV pancake makeup. And I think that’s the point, they are supposed to look like a Fox TV anchor.
@MisuseCase
I’m on the subway right now. If we did a photoshoot: made a fashion plate of everyone on this train you’d have styles: from traditional, to counterculture, to glam, to messy. It takes a LOT to stand out.So, how can a maga woman make it clear she is part of her ideological movement?
It’s hard.
And there is a strong impulse to create those boundaries (in this political moment.)
But, how do you “dress anti-feminist” Show, as a woman, that you will not be a problem?
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Anyway. If you want my fashion advice I do have some:
Get your clothes tailored or learn to sew, or get a friend who can help you. Every day I see people in clothing that isn't correctly fitted and it makes me so sad. (Fit doesn't mean tight or loose it means it's *intentional* not just putting up with the size you stumbled into)
That's the only thing I really get heated about.
You are short and your blazer sleeves are too long.
@futurebird I’ve had some weight ups and downs and one of the things I noticed was:
- your punishment for gaining weight is buying new clothes
- your reward for losing weight is buying new clothes
I absolutely hate shopping for clothes. So I tend to just have clothes that fit badly for one reason or another.
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@futurebird I’ve had some weight ups and downs and one of the things I noticed was:
- your punishment for gaining weight is buying new clothes
- your reward for losing weight is buying new clothes
I absolutely hate shopping for clothes. So I tend to just have clothes that fit badly for one reason or another.
@paco @futurebird nah, I keep all my rewards just in case!
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I think it's both. One: showing that your man can afford to pay for all that work to get done. Two: getting those things done that the most popular individual in your group has gotten done.
@fritzoids @MarvinFreeman @futurebird Reminded of court women plucking out their hairline to a high dome (in tribute to the king, some said.)
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But the thing I didn't understand was that that "MAGA woman" look that is a little baffling is aspirational. And part of the aspiration is to have people wonder "did she get work done?"
Do you see it now? No one will ever wonder if I've had "work done" I can't afford "work" ... but, the "fakeness" is part of the fantasy and appeal.
I also wonder if being confusing to liberals is part of the appeal. Because, it's the "opposite of a feminist" in their framework.
@futurebird similarly: the practice of faux-painting was to paint architectural features made of cheap materials to look like more expensive ones, like mahogany or marble. But at a certain point, the original materials became cheaper, so the practice became more exaggerated and obvious, to show the extra money spent on an artisan to do the painting
It’s the same thing with designer fashion and expensive wine: you don’t pay for the product, you pay for the price tag
It’s all flexes. Always has been
Faux-painting and the Columns of Arlington House (U.S. National Park Service)
The columns on the front of Arlington House, painted to look like natural stone, are a large example of a bygone decorative technique called faux-painting.
(www.nps.gov)
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@MisuseCase
I’m on the subway right now. If we did a photoshoot: made a fashion plate of everyone on this train you’d have styles: from traditional, to counterculture, to glam, to messy. It takes a LOT to stand out.So, how can a maga woman make it clear she is part of her ideological movement?
It’s hard.
And there is a strong impulse to create those boundaries (in this political moment.)
But, how do you “dress anti-feminist” Show, as a woman, that you will not be a problem?
@futurebird @MisuseCase mmm, by perfectly adhering to the Drumpftian canons of feminine acceptability?
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That makes sense. This looks like a fun listen, thanks.
@futurebird @alec
I think people should do to their appearance whatever they like. But they should also do this understanding the context within which they are doing this. If they are doing this to make them feel better when they look at themselves, that's one thing. But if they are doing it because they want to appeal to someone else's aesthetic, then they should question why they're doing it at all.In the case of these MAGA women and men (see Gaetz, Matt), who are they pleasing & why?
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But wouldn't it be sad if nobody cared about fashion despite all of the effort and art and creativity people put into it? Someone needs to care.
(More seriously do not worry about people who Have Opinions if it stresses you out at all. It's literally none of our business and not important.)
@futurebird @noodlemaz To add to this, it’s also very very geographical, both in terms of attention paid and where the attention is paid. Myrmepropagandist talking about it is what unlocked my awareness that this heightened attention is something all the contacts I have in NYC and surrounds have in common, probably thanks to continental European influence. I remember being astounded one trip to LA in the mid-aughts that the (straight) men dressed so lazily and shoddily - performatively so - when the women were so glamorous (both senses; lots of artifice.) Depending on where you live it might be no great concern outside of a job interview or upper level white collar professional setting to even be dressed up, let alone well-dressed.
But just because some people care and find a passion in it doesn’t obligate everyone to or set it as a mandate for individual happiness, even if you live in a high fashion area. Vehicles (but especially trucks) are the height of fashionable consumption here and I’m happier and better-off for deciding to not-care about those things no matter how conspicuous they make me, and with comfortable joy-of-missing-out on all the genuinely inventive and creative developments in the automotive space. I can literally bond with people here over not caring about cars, because it’s outlier-ish enough to be remarkable and suggest the contours of some specific priorities. Your consumption patterns can be a way to find your people.
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Tangentially related: Speaking of conservative women, there was an article on how Fox News female anchors all look the same (blonde hair, moderate dress, traditional haircut) : It's by design, to reinforce the stereotype of the ideal conservative wife.
@yuki2501 @futurebird @neckspike I was under the impression that the fox dress code was about Roger Ailes being a creep and every woman having to look like his ideal harassment target to increase his enjoyment of harassing them
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@futurebird Dr Tressie McMillan Cottom gets into this in this podcast episode with Katie Tassin and to me explained it very well. The whole episode is great and covers status symbols and class. The bit about Noemi’s particular aesthetic is the later part of it. https://moneywithkatie.com/the_mwk_show/status-power-economy/
TLDR is Trump values the effort to perform conformity, so they make it clear they tried. The fakery has to be apparent for that to work.
@alec @futurebird Preemptive rave review - Cottom is the wit who pinned that blonde isn’t a hair color but a racial identity, which blew my brain open (and Money with Katie is usually interesting but I've been off podcasts as I don’t commute anymore) - thank you for linking!!
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@MisuseCase
I’m on the subway right now. If we did a photoshoot: made a fashion plate of everyone on this train you’d have styles: from traditional, to counterculture, to glam, to messy. It takes a LOT to stand out.So, how can a maga woman make it clear she is part of her ideological movement?
It’s hard.
And there is a strong impulse to create those boundaries (in this political moment.)
But, how do you “dress anti-feminist” Show, as a woman, that you will not be a problem?
@futurebird @MisuseCase I mean to me it’s a very loud performance of high dollar consumption - demonstrating having resources of money and time in the first place like a good little inheritor-scion, and committing them to perform and performance of the politics of your gender over anything else you could possibly do with them. These people are fundamentally very calvinist (actual religiosity varies) and they need to demonstrate their deservingness of wealth by demonstrating that they burn through it with not clothing and cosmetics and coiffure but treatments and surgeries that *keep up with* a shifting aesthetic of the politicized female body, potentially hundreds of thousands a year.
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@MisuseCase
I’m on the subway right now. If we did a photoshoot: made a fashion plate of everyone on this train you’d have styles: from traditional, to counterculture, to glam, to messy. It takes a LOT to stand out.So, how can a maga woman make it clear she is part of her ideological movement?
It’s hard.
And there is a strong impulse to create those boundaries (in this political moment.)
But, how do you “dress anti-feminist” Show, as a woman, that you will not be a problem?
I saw a teenager dressed like a tiefling on a train once. Horns and skin dyed pink and all.
Wasn't even halloween or a convention or anything like that. Just a random day.
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@futurebird @MisuseCase I mean to me it’s a very loud performance of high dollar consumption - demonstrating having resources of money and time in the first place like a good little inheritor-scion, and committing them to perform and performance of the politics of your gender over anything else you could possibly do with them. These people are fundamentally very calvinist (actual religiosity varies) and they need to demonstrate their deservingness of wealth by demonstrating that they burn through it with not clothing and cosmetics and coiffure but treatments and surgeries that *keep up with* a shifting aesthetic of the politicized female body, potentially hundreds of thousands a year.
@cwicseolfor @futurebird I mean, valid! Also this aesthetic only really works for white or white-passing women, that’s a whole other layer.
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@cwicseolfor @futurebird I mean, valid! Also this aesthetic only really works for white or white-passing women, that’s a whole other layer.
@MisuseCase @futurebird When I said “good little inheritor-scion” I was thinking very deliberately about whose labor created what they were inheriting, and it wasn’t their own ancestors’.
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I saw a teenager dressed like a tiefling on a train once. Horns and skin dyed pink and all.
Wasn't even halloween or a convention or anything like that. Just a random day.
“dressed like”
I mean. Kind of rude to assume it wasn’t natural. How do you know?
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@fritzoids @MarvinFreeman @futurebird Reminded of court women plucking out their hairline to a high dome (in tribute to the king, some said.)
@cwicseolfor @fritzoids @MarvinFreeman @futurebird
Yeah, I think conspicuous consumption is at least part of what is going on.
Even if you turn out hideous, you are flaunting that you could afford so much work.
It would almost be a failure if the work was done well, because then people wouldn't notice.
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@cwicseolfor @fritzoids @MarvinFreeman @futurebird
Yeah, I think conspicuous consumption is at least part of what is going on.
Even if you turn out hideous, you are flaunting that you could afford so much work.
It would almost be a failure if the work was done well, because then people wouldn't notice.
@Phosphenes @fritzoids @MarvinFreeman @futurebird It’s a totally different definition of “done well.” But yeah, it’s all a very gaudy aesthetic, the ‘poor man’s idea of a rich man’ in distaff. It reminds me of what they were reflecting and lampooning with the mob-coded East Coast moms in films of the early 90s (think Matilda’s family in Leon: the Professional, or on the other end of the spectrum, the Rhea Perlman’s mother of Ronald Dahl’s Matilda.) Which makes sense; the head of the cult really just wants 1989 back.
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@futurebird I live in the Washington, DC area and saw a few dozen ladies with the MAGA aesthetic in person around the time of the inauguration last year. They stood out because nobody in DC does their hair or makeup like that, nor do they wear fur coats!
They look like they subdued their hair with a whole can of hairspray and a curling iron while getting TV pancake makeup. And I think that’s the point, they are supposed to look like a Fox TV anchor.
And here I thought it was just about truly terrifying lips.
