With all the tiktok drama I have been telling people Mastodon is still here and kicking!!
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@taylorlorenz Explain that the Fediverse cannot be bought by some tech bro millionaire. It is ours.
@janikvonrotz @taylorlorenz good point, but most of the users really don't care, they don't care their pictures are free use for big tech, they don't care that Meta AI is learning on pictures of their kids, learning on text statuses, etc. Now #Fediverse is not easy to discover, not easy to find friends, less users and less topics to discuss. I happy to be here and selfhosting my server, but it will need more work to be done to be competitive!
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@aysc This post is sent to the complete Fediverse, shoiuld I write "stay out of the fediverse"? No, I see a great fortune in the fediverse, and that you can convince a lot of people to come here by shownig them the oportunitys. People understand that it is not another app, but a complete real network. It is a possibility to show people that are not loocking for a X replacement, that there is peertube and pixelfeed and friendica. Why do you want to keep your network mastodon only?
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@bitpickup @taylorlorenz "Refuse" implies she has a responsibility to do it, and I'm not seeing that as anyone's responsibility. Setting up an instance takes time, technical skill, and money. Nobody owes any of that to the world. I'm grateful to those who do, and I support them financially because it can, but that's all.
@OrionKidder @bitpickup @taylorlorenz it is definitely NOT going to help if we put the onus on new users to run/moderate their own instances (even if we have turnkey solutions for this).
The people I talk to mostly complain that Mastodon seems "too complicated", and the idea that you are obligated to run your own instance is not going to help that.
Eventually some may recognize its in their interest to do so, but we need to LOWER the perceived barrier to entry, not raise it.
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@anja @taylorlorenz Advertising is the way. I didn't know about it until my brothers found out somehow, but its not like there's many advertisements for Mastodon like there is for Facebook.
@NicksWorld @anja @taylorlorenz reading through this thread and I think we need more things to make it seem cool. Marketing is a good idea. Also, I don’t know how easy it is to build on top of mastodon’s API, my understanding of twitter’s initial rise was openness of the api and the developer ecosystem that created was a big part of adding cool new features.
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With all the tiktok drama I have been telling people Mastodon is still here and kicking!! I love this app and I really think the decentralized model is the best for social media.
Still, people don’t want to join! What do you think Mastodon’s biggest barriers are to courting new users? What could be done to improve the product and grow the user base in a positive way?
@taylorlorenz I think ultimately it boils down to the crux of human nature; being in groups. On Facebook, Instagram, TikTok etc., you'll find that's where most of your family and friends are and so naturally it's very hard to migrate to a newer, "unknown" platform. Do we remember how hard it was to get a parent, or grandparent, on Facebook? History repeats itself like that, except this time, we're the boomers!
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@OrionKidder @bitpickup @taylorlorenz it is definitely NOT going to help if we put the onus on new users to run/moderate their own instances (even if we have turnkey solutions for this).
The people I talk to mostly complain that Mastodon seems "too complicated", and the idea that you are obligated to run your own instance is not going to help that.
Eventually some may recognize its in their interest to do so, but we need to LOWER the perceived barrier to entry, not raise it.
@OrionKidder @bitpickup @taylorlorenz additionally pressuring people to open their own instance from the start will inevitably lead to poorly moderated instances, or people giving up and leaving dead instances, which does not help anyone.
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@hfinyow @taylorlorenz I hear what you're saying. You're not wrong about the "there's no one app" thing. But at the same time:
It's not an app. It's a web site. It works great on a browser. My solution, then, would be to make an "app" that's really just a web app. It leads you to a browser instance of Mastodon. Your app will get "upgraded" when Mastodon is upgraded because it's just a website. That should be the default.
@OrionKidder That's how I use Mastodon on my phone: I made the web page an "app". It's still accessed through Firefox Mobile, but without the obvious address bar and other browser components. It works really well that way too.
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Answering this in the off chance you read replies 🤪
Biggest barrier to courting new users: we are culturally hostile here to influence peddlers and people who are trying to broadcast and don't want to interact. (ie, we treat them like the person invited to the small cocktail party at the house, who jumps up on a table and starts yelling).
Technically, users are used to being force fed content (through viral algorithms and suggested content)... i.e. passive (like TV). Mastodon is not built like that, which means people don't know how to find things they like or people to follow.
Finally (deliberately so), Mastodon is not built to tickle the endorphins... i.e. "likes" "followers" "virality" and that often turns people off, who really would like to use social media like a gambling junkie uses a slot machine (pull the lever, hope for a big payoff!). Fundamentally, non-addictive to that kind of thing.
I don't know if we want to fix any of that, though 🤪
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@hfinyow @taylorlorenz I hear what you're saying. You're not wrong about the "there's no one app" thing. But at the same time:
It's not an app. It's a web site. It works great on a browser. My solution, then, would be to make an "app" that's really just a web app. It leads you to a browser instance of Mastodon. Your app will get "upgraded" when Mastodon is upgraded because it's just a website. That should be the default.
You can do that already.
Progressive web app
How to install Web Apps for Mastodon and the Fediverse | Fedi.Tips – An Unofficial Guide to Mastodon and the Fediverse
An unofficial guide to using Mastodon and the Fediverse
(fedi.tips)
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With all the tiktok drama I have been telling people Mastodon is still here and kicking!! I love this app and I really think the decentralized model is the best for social media.
Still, people don’t want to join! What do you think Mastodon’s biggest barriers are to courting new users? What could be done to improve the product and grow the user base in a positive way?
@taylorlorenz
Getting them to stay is the harder part. How many abandoned accounts are there that post a couple of times. Dont get followers, dont connect and never come back.Welcoming people.
Answer their questions
Give them tips
Help them connect to other with similar interests.
Explain how it works
Suggest content or people -
With all the tiktok drama I have been telling people Mastodon is still here and kicking!! I love this app and I really think the decentralized model is the best for social media.
Still, people don’t want to join! What do you think Mastodon’s biggest barriers are to courting new users? What could be done to improve the product and grow the user base in a positive way?
@taylorlorenz Just a couple of politicians, influencers and journalists using Mastodon as their primary medium would do wonders. Dutch news routinely refers to posts on X/Twitter.
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@taylorlorenz Also, specifically for TikTok users, we actually do have a federated alternative, not sure if you heard of it, https://joinloops.org?
I wonder if Mastodon's reputation has been too tarnished by all the gatekeeping and scolding. Maybe we could get more people into the fediverse sneakily through another platform?
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With all the tiktok drama I have been telling people Mastodon is still here and kicking!! I love this app and I really think the decentralized model is the best for social media.
Still, people don’t want to join! What do you think Mastodon’s biggest barriers are to courting new users? What could be done to improve the product and grow the user base in a positive way?
@taylorlorenz There is also the problem of retaining people. @davidallengreen, a UK lawyer with solid takes on pretty much everything, just went on an extended fedi break because the purity police didn’t like him using substack and he got bored of the hassling. Lovely own goal reply guys, the only behaviour you changed was his posting on the fedi. This is a people issue not a tech issue, which I’m not quite sure how to get around. He’s not the only one either.
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@hfinyow @taylorlorenz I think I'd suggest people to just start on mastodon.social. don't worry about instances to start with, as it's very easy to migrate later. And then once they got the basic hang of it, tell them like "oh, btw as you're really into literature/art/music/tech/... did you see this other instance? I think it'd match really well with your profile. And it'd help the network, too, if you'd chose a smaller, more individual instance!"
Keep it simple to start with, don't overwhelm.@T_X @hfinyow @taylorlorenz yes but, pick another instance to recommended so we can protect the integrity of the fediverse
Mastodon.social is not a good way to join Mastodon. If you’re already on it, you might want to move your account to a different Mastodon server. | Fedi.Tips – An Unofficial Guide to Mastodon and the Fediverse
An unofficial guide to using Mastodon and the Fediverse
(fedi.tips)
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With all the tiktok drama I have been telling people Mastodon is still here and kicking!! I love this app and I really think the decentralized model is the best for social media.
Still, people don’t want to join! What do you think Mastodon’s biggest barriers are to courting new users? What could be done to improve the product and grow the user base in a positive way?
@taylorlorenz Onboarding is still the biggest hurdle. Asking new users to pick a server, understand federation, and think about migrating later is a lot. Better defaults and clearer explanations would help without breaking decentralization.
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With all the tiktok drama I have been telling people Mastodon is still here and kicking!! I love this app and I really think the decentralized model is the best for social media.
Still, people don’t want to join! What do you think Mastodon’s biggest barriers are to courting new users? What could be done to improve the product and grow the user base in a positive way?
@taylorlorenz I love Mastodon just like I love my local owner-run vegan cafe. The decor definitely has a DIY vibe, the staff flaunt an array of tattoos and beanies, and who knows what might be on the menu on any given day. The coffee and cake is to die for.
Tried taking the family there once. The kids complained the hot chocolate was "too chocolatey" and the Quorn dippers weren't "chickeny enough"
So McDonald's it is still with them. Nothing like the buzz of a McFlurry and Chicken Select box
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@MamaLake @taylorlorenz is there some agreement that we can't do commerce here?
I just bought a custom, hand-made bicycle bag from a nice person, and I wish I could talk to him, and about his business on here.
(Bags by Bird)
That's a pretty slippery slope... every sleazy advertiser has started out with promises like "I just want to talk about my dear old mother's handmade traditional shaving cream is that OK?" and next thing you know we have 4 generations of Americans who have never heard of shaving soap.
The rule I go by is if you have to ask, then no you can't. I don't think you have to ask to talk about something your friend made that helps your bicycle.
CC: @MamaLake@beige.party @taylorlorenz@mastodon.social -
With all the tiktok drama I have been telling people Mastodon is still here and kicking!! I love this app and I really think the decentralized model is the best for social media.
Still, people don’t want to join! What do you think Mastodon’s biggest barriers are to courting new users? What could be done to improve the product and grow the user base in a positive way?
@taylorlorenz I think it's because the fediverse, for me at least, works more as a social network than social media. And because of that it needs a network effect...but if you're joining without knowing anybody it's hard to get into a circle like that. It's a catch 22.
I was lucky on my main account to find a server for a common interest and everyone in that cluster of servers knows and interacts with each other. In a way it's ended up feeling more like old school facebook than twitter?
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With all the tiktok drama I have been telling people Mastodon is still here and kicking!! I love this app and I really think the decentralized model is the best for social media.
Still, people don’t want to join! What do you think Mastodon’s biggest barriers are to courting new users? What could be done to improve the product and grow the user base in a positive way?
@taylorlorenz capitalist realism. People (even leftists) refuse to understand that these apps don‘t exist to "compete" with the big monetized platforms. This place has been so good for my mental health because it‘s designed with freedom in mind!
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Maybe change the name Mastodon to something lighter.
Compare the mental image Mastodon produces to TikTok, Twitter, BlueSky.
@douglasthiel @taylorlorenz Yeah, after many years here I still think it's a bad name from a branding perspective. Bluesky sounds inspiring. Mastodon sounds complicated and stagnant.
