So a few months back I found a study that tried to do the "mirror test for consciousness" on ants.
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@futurebird @alexwild @MyrmecolNews I’m generally unimpressed with the mirror test. I imagine that sapient dogs would be very unimpressed that humans can’t recognize the smell of their own urine.
@michaelgemar @alexwild @MyrmecolNews
It's very contrived how we keep trying to get animals to do "tests" that are centered around things humans care about. People think it's significant to see "yourself" in a mirror.
I suspect that "ant ideas" don't have exactly parallel concepts. That is, I don't know what the test would prove if it worked.
Ants *do* care a lot about having the same pheromone profile as their colony.
Ants do some things we can't. No one likes to sit with that truth.
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F myrmepropagandist shared this topic
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@michaelgemar @alexwild @MyrmecolNews
It's very contrived how we keep trying to get animals to do "tests" that are centered around things humans care about. People think it's significant to see "yourself" in a mirror.
I suspect that "ant ideas" don't have exactly parallel concepts. That is, I don't know what the test would prove if it worked.
Ants *do* care a lot about having the same pheromone profile as their colony.
Ants do some things we can't. No one likes to sit with that truth.
@michaelgemar @alexwild @MyrmecolNews
If more people would just spend sometime watching ants carefully you'd see them making decisions, being confused, getting frustrated, feeling panicked or scared, and being sleepy.
You'd see them struggle and fight each other over who gets to do a task and then stomp off and walk in circles when they don't win.
There is a lot going on.
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@michaelgemar @alexwild @MyrmecolNews
It's very contrived how we keep trying to get animals to do "tests" that are centered around things humans care about. People think it's significant to see "yourself" in a mirror.
I suspect that "ant ideas" don't have exactly parallel concepts. That is, I don't know what the test would prove if it worked.
Ants *do* care a lot about having the same pheromone profile as their colony.
Ants do some things we can't. No one likes to sit with that truth.
@futurebird @michaelgemar @alexwild @MyrmecolNews
I bet dolphins couldn't get humans to do tests the dolphins set up.
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@futurebird @michaelgemar @alexwild @MyrmecolNews
I bet dolphins couldn't get humans to do tests the dolphins set up.
@stefani @michaelgemar @alexwild @MyrmecolNews
Bringing this one back again:
myrmepropagandist (@futurebird@sauropods.win)
Are Humans Self-Aware? Ants have often tested humans for self awareness. They placed objects in our homes and were shocked we didn't cover them in sand. "Although humans build interesting nests & show signs of cooperation, can they really have rich inner lives like ants? Unlikely." They laid pheromone trails & we ignored them. "Even a newly eclosed callow or a termite could have followed these trails! Human intelligence is perhaps similar to that of a lichen... or perhaps an aphid at best."
Sauropods.win (sauropods.win)
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For the record... I don't find the idea of ants having some "self recognition" impossible or even unlikely.
What I'm getting hung up on is the idea that ants would pay attention to a mirror. Ants have poor vision, they are tactile creatures.
But maybe they ONLY pay attention if their reflection changes?
@futurebird Maybe ant scientists are like “Are humans even conscious? Their collaborations are spotty and conditional, and they seem not even to notice their own scent, let alone recognize it. Incredibly, they must resort to simple heuristics, such as identifying as the source or ‘dealer’ of an odor to the first individual to sense it. (They appear to react to reflected light but their primitive water-balloon eyes are clearly insufficient for true image capture)”
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@futurebird Maybe ant scientists are like “Are humans even conscious? Their collaborations are spotty and conditional, and they seem not even to notice their own scent, let alone recognize it. Incredibly, they must resort to simple heuristics, such as identifying as the source or ‘dealer’ of an odor to the first individual to sense it. (They appear to react to reflected light but their primitive water-balloon eyes are clearly insufficient for true image capture)”
@futurebird “Did Who Deny It Supply It? Rethinking Negotiations of Identity in Human-Human Interactions”
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@futurebird “Did Who Deny It Supply It? Rethinking Negotiations of Identity in Human-Human Interactions”
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@futurebird @michaelgemar @alexwild @MyrmecolNews
I bet dolphins couldn't get humans to do tests the dolphins set up.
@stefani @futurebird @michaelgemar @alexwild @MyrmecolNews probably because we’d drown.
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@stefani @futurebird @michaelgemar @alexwild @MyrmecolNews probably because we’d drown.
@Bfordham @stefani @michaelgemar @alexwild @MyrmecolNews
How smart could a creature that could *drown* possibly be?
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So a few months back I found a study that tried to do the "mirror test for consciousness" on ants. I remember not being very impressed with the journal where it was published, though I found the topic fascinating.
Anton Petrov has now mentioned this study in one of his videos, which means it's going to spread more.
So... how do the ant people feel about this?
@futurebird @alexwild @MyrmecolNews I remain convinced the author of the mirror test for ants paper intended to be mockery of the whole concept of mirror test.
