I've been reading all of Williams Gibson's novels back to back and the thing that surprises me the most is that this guy...
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I've been reading all of Williams Gibson's novels back to back and the thing that surprises me the most is that this guy... for all of the moodiness and cyberpunkery loves a happy ending. A happy ending for everyone. In the strict rules of drama this should make the novels comedies. But I don't think that quite fits.
Normally something big and unprocessed happens at the end, but bad guys generally get theirs, and the good guys, and the weird guys are alright, not perfect but OK.
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I've been reading all of Williams Gibson's novels back to back and the thing that surprises me the most is that this guy... for all of the moodiness and cyberpunkery loves a happy ending. A happy ending for everyone. In the strict rules of drama this should make the novels comedies. But I don't think that quite fits.
Normally something big and unprocessed happens at the end, but bad guys generally get theirs, and the good guys, and the weird guys are alright, not perfect but OK.
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Doing that does make it feel like the story is over. That's important. Can't just... trail off. But endings are hard.
Among the sci-fi and cyber punk... who does endings well do you think?
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Doing that does make it feel like the story is over. That's important. Can't just... trail off. But endings are hard.
Among the sci-fi and cyber punk... who does endings well do you think?
2/2
@futurebird Philip K Dick’s Ubik is my favorite ending.
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Doing that does make it feel like the story is over. That's important. Can't just... trail off. But endings are hard.
Among the sci-fi and cyber punk... who does endings well do you think?
2/2
@futurebird
The ending of "The Hydrogen Sonata" by Iain M. Banks had me crying. So perfect. What a way to end a career. -
F myrmepropagandist shared this topic
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Doing that does make it feel like the story is over. That's important. Can't just... trail off. But endings are hard.
Among the sci-fi and cyber punk... who does endings well do you think?
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@futurebird The fact that Frank Herbert was able to wrap up all the threads in “Dune” and have a succinct ending was master-class.
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Doing that does make it feel like the story is over. That's important. Can't just... trail off. But endings are hard.
Among the sci-fi and cyber punk... who does endings well do you think?
2/2
@futurebird I tend to think in those terms, once I come up with a story on a conceptual level I almost immediately think about how it should be resolved, my lead characters don't yet exist but I've already decided where they'll be at the end. Mostly it's in an ok place, happy endings are nice, I like a good resolution. It also makes the writing an interesting challenge, I have to line everything up to get my characters there in a way that doesn't feel contrived and deus ex machinist. I'll change things around in a story as I develop it but I always keep in mind that there's a landing I gotta stick.
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Doing that does make it feel like the story is over. That's important. Can't just... trail off. But endings are hard.
Among the sci-fi and cyber punk... who does endings well do you think?
2/2
@futurebird I know a lot of people dislike Neal Stephenson's endings as they tend to be rather abrupt. He was asked about this a long time ago in a Slashdot interview, and basically said he ended his books exactly as intended and liked it that way.
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@futurebird I know a lot of people dislike Neal Stephenson's endings as they tend to be rather abrupt. He was asked about this a long time ago in a Slashdot interview, and basically said he ended his books exactly as intended and liked it that way.
With Stephenson I always feel like he's trying to get me to join a church or donate to his Kickstarter for some dubious self improvement method about 1/2 through all of his books... which is why I've not finished reading any of them.
He can write a good hook, though. He gets me invested, then starts getting on my nerves more and more until I just put the book down.
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With Stephenson I always feel like he's trying to get me to join a church or donate to his Kickstarter for some dubious self improvement method about 1/2 through all of his books... which is why I've not finished reading any of them.
He can write a good hook, though. He gets me invested, then starts getting on my nerves more and more until I just put the book down.
@futurebird I've mostly read his earlier books (Snow Crash, Diamond Age, etc.). I did not get the feeling you got at all, that's very interesting.
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@futurebird I've mostly read his earlier books (Snow Crash, Diamond Age, etc.). I did not get the feeling you got at all, that's very interesting.
Snow Crash almost feels like a different author I keep forgetting he wrote it because I LIKE that one.
I'm being very fair to the poor guy aren't I?
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Snow Crash almost feels like a different author I keep forgetting he wrote it because I LIKE that one.
I'm being very fair to the poor guy aren't I?
@futurebird hehehe. I read SC twice, and did the same for Cryptonomicon. In both cases, the ending left me saying "That's it?!" aloud, even the second time.
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With Stephenson I always feel like he's trying to get me to join a church or donate to his Kickstarter for some dubious self improvement method about 1/2 through all of his books... which is why I've not finished reading any of them.
He can write a good hook, though. He gets me invested, then starts getting on my nerves more and more until I just put the book down.
@jenesuispasgoth @futurebird I remember like Snow Crash … the next time he passed my awareness was … Diamond Age which I disliked intensely and after that I don’t touch his books with a ten foot pole.
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@jenesuispasgoth @futurebird I remember like Snow Crash … the next time he passed my awareness was … Diamond Age which I disliked intensely and after that I don’t touch his books with a ten foot pole.
@GoblinQuester I need to re-read Diamond Age, but I really liked it at the time. I know at the time my grasp of English was not as good as now, so there was definitely some misinterpretations on my part.
I re-read the beginning a few years ago, and still liked it, but got distracted and never finished again.
I understand his books are not for everyone though, but as @futurebird said, the style has changed a lot since, so maybe you'll like his other books better.
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@GoblinQuester I need to re-read Diamond Age, but I really liked it at the time. I know at the time my grasp of English was not as good as now, so there was definitely some misinterpretations on my part.
I re-read the beginning a few years ago, and still liked it, but got distracted and never finished again.
I understand his books are not for everyone though, but as @futurebird said, the style has changed a lot since, so maybe you'll like his other books better.
@futurebird @jenesuispasgoth I remember I found the beginning interesting but the story disjointed and then an completely unnecessary rape scene (that felt tucked on just to be edgy) completely dissociated me from the book.
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@futurebird @jenesuispasgoth I remember I found the beginning interesting but the story disjointed and then an completely unnecessary rape scene (that felt tucked on just to be edgy) completely dissociated me from the book.
@GoblinQuester @jenesuispasgoth
There was a scene in Seveneves where he was describing how this sexy Russian engineer lady was sleeping in a transparent bubble mostly naked, and on the surface it was supposed to be something about "how fragile is humankind in the cold of space?" but it felt more like soft core porn... like leering... but in a way that was trying to excuse itself and pretend not to be... leering.
Like I don't have a problem? just leer and be honest about it. Creeped me out.
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@GoblinQuester @jenesuispasgoth
There was a scene in Seveneves where he was describing how this sexy Russian engineer lady was sleeping in a transparent bubble mostly naked, and on the surface it was supposed to be something about "how fragile is humankind in the cold of space?" but it felt more like soft core porn... like leering... but in a way that was trying to excuse itself and pretend not to be... leering.
Like I don't have a problem? just leer and be honest about it. Creeped me out.
@jenesuispasgoth @futurebird Yeah, there is so many authors out there that I could throw my money at, instead of another creepy dude. There is a reason my preference these days is for woman authors.
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With Stephenson I always feel like he's trying to get me to join a church or donate to his Kickstarter for some dubious self improvement method about 1/2 through all of his books... which is why I've not finished reading any of them.
He can write a good hook, though. He gets me invested, then starts getting on my nerves more and more until I just put the book down.
@futurebird
That's spot on!
I never made that connection.
And I think it's fair to say now he was doing that in every book. -
With Stephenson I always feel like he's trying to get me to join a church or donate to his Kickstarter for some dubious self improvement method about 1/2 through all of his books... which is why I've not finished reading any of them.
He can write a good hook, though. He gets me invested, then starts getting on my nerves more and more until I just put the book down.
This reminds me of @matociquala on "author points". Clearly, Stephenson didn't get that many author points in the beginning
Author points
One of the most useful analogies I’ve come up with over the course of my career is something that arose out of an epiphany I had approximately 20 years ago,...
(buttondown.com)
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@futurebird
That's spot on!
I never made that connection.
And I think it's fair to say now he was doing that in every book.I wonder if all books do that to some degree, but it's just that what Stephenson wants to say is so tiresome it stands out?
hmm
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@jenesuispasgoth @futurebird Yeah, there is so many authors out there that I could throw my money at, instead of another creepy dude. There is a reason my preference these days is for woman authors.
@GoblinQuester @jenesuispasgoth
I could have tolerated it from Niven since I don't really expect him to have any self control that way. But also Niven would have never made it so pretentious when it was just ... some guys sexy notion.
