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Chebucto Regional Softball Club

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  3. If a person were a time traveler how might that show up in their skeleton, eg in the isotopic analysis of their teeth?
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If a person were a time traveler how might that show up in their skeleton, eg in the isotopic analysis of their teeth?

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  • myrmepropagandistF myrmepropagandist

    If a person were a time traveler how might that show up in their skeleton, eg in the isotopic analysis of their teeth?

    David Chisnall (*Now with 50% more sarcasm!*)D This user is from outside of this forum
    David Chisnall (*Now with 50% more sarcasm!*)D This user is from outside of this forum
    David Chisnall (*Now with 50% more sarcasm!*)
    wrote last edited by
    #54

    @futurebird Fillings in the teeth or false teeth are a common trope in science fiction for spotting time travellers. So are other surgical things like replacement hip joints.

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    • myrmepropagandistF myrmepropagandist

      If a person were a time traveler how might that show up in their skeleton, eg in the isotopic analysis of their teeth?

      Irenes (many)I This user is from outside of this forum
      Irenes (many)I This user is from outside of this forum
      Irenes (many)
      wrote last edited by
      #55

      @futurebird so the thing about carbon dating

      (note: we are not experts on this, this is our lay understanding)

      it's based on the observation that a living thing ceases to take carbon into itself when it dies, which means its radioactives start to be a smaller proportion of its mass compared to things that are still alive

      but that only helps measure duration since death

      Irenes (many)I 1 Reply Last reply
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      • Irenes (many)I Irenes (many)

        @futurebird so the thing about carbon dating

        (note: we are not experts on this, this is our lay understanding)

        it's based on the observation that a living thing ceases to take carbon into itself when it dies, which means its radioactives start to be a smaller proportion of its mass compared to things that are still alive

        but that only helps measure duration since death

        Irenes (many)I This user is from outside of this forum
        Irenes (many)I This user is from outside of this forum
        Irenes (many)
        wrote last edited by
        #56

        @futurebird there is a nuance, though, that we suspect must be part of this methodology when it's applied for-real, but don't know enough about

        which is that the total isotope balance in the ecosystem is not necessarily constant over time. we have no intuition for how it would vary but suspect it's not uniform.

        so if you had a time traveler who you knew just died, and they hadn't been in the present day long enough to have exchanged much mass with it, they might indeed be noticeable

        Irenes (many)I 1 Reply Last reply
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        • Irenes (many)I Irenes (many)

          @futurebird there is a nuance, though, that we suspect must be part of this methodology when it's applied for-real, but don't know enough about

          which is that the total isotope balance in the ecosystem is not necessarily constant over time. we have no intuition for how it would vary but suspect it's not uniform.

          so if you had a time traveler who you knew just died, and they hadn't been in the present day long enough to have exchanged much mass with it, they might indeed be noticeable

          Irenes (many)I This user is from outside of this forum
          Irenes (many)I This user is from outside of this forum
          Irenes (many)
          wrote last edited by
          #57

          @futurebird though you wouldn't be able to tell when they were from specifically, and there would be plenty of "regular" explanations such as them having had unusual exposure to radiation during their life

          Irenes (many)I ? llewellyL 3 Replies Last reply
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          • AndrewC Andrew

            @futurebird microplastics

            Irenes (many)I This user is from outside of this forum
            Irenes (many)I This user is from outside of this forum
            Irenes (many)
            wrote last edited by
            #58

            @cinebox @futurebird honestly yeah microplastics and other environmental contaminants are probably the better way to do that identification

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            • Matt McIrvinM Matt McIrvin

              @futurebird Individuals who lived between 1945 and about now have greater carbon-14 levels in their bodies (from the atmospheric nuclear detonations from 1945 to 1963) than anyone who lived before.

              But unless more nuclear bombs get detonated, new babies born will soon have no more in them than people who died before 1945.

              Irenes (many)I This user is from outside of this forum
              Irenes (many)I This user is from outside of this forum
              Irenes (many)
              wrote last edited by
              #59

              @mattmcirvin @futurebird let us aspire to allow the background radiation to continue to decline, sigh

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              • myrmepropagandistF myrmepropagandist

                @davidtheeviloverlord

                Well, at least one would know you'd have exciting times in your future.

                60 million years ago is an interesting period in ant evolution. The ancestor of Titanomyrma was probably around and there are so many gaps in the preservation of insects you could see some really amazing things.

                Before ending up like a fossil...

                Irenes (many)I This user is from outside of this forum
                Irenes (many)I This user is from outside of this forum
                Irenes (many)
                wrote last edited by
                #60

                @futurebird @davidtheeviloverlord the best part is you can make sure your observations reach the present day, by carving them on a part of your own skeleton that you didn't get around to examining the fossilized version of

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                • Irenes (many)I Irenes (many)

                  @futurebird though you wouldn't be able to tell when they were from specifically, and there would be plenty of "regular" explanations such as them having had unusual exposure to radiation during their life

                  Irenes (many)I This user is from outside of this forum
                  Irenes (many)I This user is from outside of this forum
                  Irenes (many)
                  wrote last edited by
                  #61

                  @futurebird on another note, we don't remember who wrote it but there was a short story once about time travelers who attempt to rob the library of Alexandria right before it burns down, but get caught by local law enforcement, who correctly deduce they're time travelers because......... they attempt to pass coins that are real gold, but all identical rather than showing individual variation in their manufacture

                  серафими многоꙮчитїиD 1 Reply Last reply
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                  • Irenes (many)I Irenes (many)

                    @futurebird though you wouldn't be able to tell when they were from specifically, and there would be plenty of "regular" explanations such as them having had unusual exposure to radiation during their life

                    ? Offline
                    ? Offline
                    Guest
                    wrote last edited by
                    #62

                    @ireneista @futurebird

                    At the coroner's office, after time travel has been invented:

                    Detective, writing into small notebook: "So, how long ago did the deceased die?"

                    Coroner, taking another large swig from a bottle: "Who knows? Maybe yesterday. Maybe tomorrow. Maybe right now."

                    Irenes (many)I 1 Reply Last reply
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                    • ? Guest

                      @ireneista @futurebird

                      At the coroner's office, after time travel has been invented:

                      Detective, writing into small notebook: "So, how long ago did the deceased die?"

                      Coroner, taking another large swig from a bottle: "Who knows? Maybe yesterday. Maybe tomorrow. Maybe right now."

                      Irenes (many)I This user is from outside of this forum
                      Irenes (many)I This user is from outside of this forum
                      Irenes (many)
                      wrote last edited by
                      #63

                      @wakame @futurebird yeah lol 😄 the hidden premise of this scenario is that time travel is noteworthy in the setting, ie. not a normal part of society yet 😄

                      ? 1 Reply Last reply
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                      • Irenes (many)I Irenes (many)

                        @wakame @futurebird yeah lol 😄 the hidden premise of this scenario is that time travel is noteworthy in the setting, ie. not a normal part of society yet 😄

                        ? Offline
                        ? Offline
                        Guest
                        wrote last edited by
                        #64

                        @ireneista @futurebird

                        Time Traveler: "Time travel will been a rather recent invention."

                        Linguist: "You know what? I will simply go back in time and buy Microsoft shares instead of getting into a profession where I have to listen to eldritch abominations like 'will been'."

                        Time Traveler: "Microsoft? The burger chain?"

                        Irenes (many)I 1 Reply Last reply
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                        • ? Guest

                          @ireneista @futurebird

                          Time Traveler: "Time travel will been a rather recent invention."

                          Linguist: "You know what? I will simply go back in time and buy Microsoft shares instead of getting into a profession where I have to listen to eldritch abominations like 'will been'."

                          Time Traveler: "Microsoft? The burger chain?"

                          Irenes (many)I This user is from outside of this forum
                          Irenes (many)I This user is from outside of this forum
                          Irenes (many)
                          wrote last edited by
                          #65

                          @wakame @futurebird they really should have known that that was always going to have happened

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                          • Irenes (many)I Irenes (many)

                            @wakame @futurebird they really should have known that that was always going to have happened

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                            wrote last edited by
                            #66

                            @ireneista @futurebird

                            Retrohistorian: "So what happened is this: A lot of time travelers, and I mean... a lot show up on April 4th, 1975, to buy a share of Microsoft.
                            And Billy 'Buns' Gates, always the entrepreneur, sells each of them a burger with fries, for $20, reselling food that costs $1.20 at the time.
                            After that, he basically bought a company named 'McDonalds' and rebranded it.
                            What do we learn from that? Always compare prices whenever you go."

                            Irenes (many)I 1 Reply Last reply
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                            • ? Guest

                              @ireneista @futurebird

                              Retrohistorian: "So what happened is this: A lot of time travelers, and I mean... a lot show up on April 4th, 1975, to buy a share of Microsoft.
                              And Billy 'Buns' Gates, always the entrepreneur, sells each of them a burger with fries, for $20, reselling food that costs $1.20 at the time.
                              After that, he basically bought a company named 'McDonalds' and rebranded it.
                              What do we learn from that? Always compare prices whenever you go."

                              Irenes (many)I This user is from outside of this forum
                              Irenes (many)I This user is from outside of this forum
                              Irenes (many)
                              wrote last edited by
                              #67

                              @wakame @futurebird the most vividly believable time travel "bad end" we've ever seen is https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2B4vGbwR_jw

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                              • myrmepropagandistF myrmepropagandist

                                If a person were a time traveler how might that show up in their skeleton, eg in the isotopic analysis of their teeth?

                                llewellyL This user is from outside of this forum
                                llewellyL This user is from outside of this forum
                                llewelly
                                wrote last edited by
                                #68

                                @futurebird carbon, oxygen, calcium, magnesium, and strontium all have stable isotope ratios which vary over time due to global geochemical cycles, and all are potentially useful in chemostratigraphy, but all are also affected by diet, and by metabolic body temperature. If all you had were isotope ratios, and no other information was available, it would be very difficult to distinguish a time traveler from someone who merely had a very unusual diet.

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                                • Irenes (many)I Irenes (many)

                                  @futurebird on another note, we don't remember who wrote it but there was a short story once about time travelers who attempt to rob the library of Alexandria right before it burns down, but get caught by local law enforcement, who correctly deduce they're time travelers because......... they attempt to pass coins that are real gold, but all identical rather than showing individual variation in their manufacture

                                  серафими многоꙮчитїиD This user is from outside of this forum
                                  серафими многоꙮчитїиD This user is from outside of this forum
                                  серафими многоꙮчитїи
                                  wrote last edited by
                                  #69

                                  @ireneista @futurebird love that the local authorities were wise to time travel even back in the day

                                  Irenes (many)I 1 Reply Last reply
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                                  • серафими многоꙮчитїиD серафими многоꙮчитїи

                                    @ireneista @futurebird love that the local authorities were wise to time travel even back in the day

                                    Irenes (many)I This user is from outside of this forum
                                    Irenes (many)I This user is from outside of this forum
                                    Irenes (many)
                                    wrote last edited by
                                    #70

                                    @djm62 @futurebird it was a very clever story

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                                    • Irenes (many)I Irenes (many)

                                      @futurebird though you wouldn't be able to tell when they were from specifically, and there would be plenty of "regular" explanations such as them having had unusual exposure to radiation during their life

                                      llewellyL This user is from outside of this forum
                                      llewellyL This user is from outside of this forum
                                      llewelly
                                      wrote last edited by
                                      #71

                                      @ireneista @futurebird
                                      there are at least 4 different sources of natural C14 variations; high solar activity results in more cosmic rays striking the upper atmosphere, resulting in more C14, skewing dates slightly older. Low solar activity does the opposite. Similarily, up and down variations in magnetic field or ozone layer also cause C14 variations. Large scale fires of coal, oil, and gas deposits can occur naturally, and inject large amouts of old carbon that doesn't contain any C14.

                                      Irenes (many)I 0xC0DEC0DE07EAC 2 Replies Last reply
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                                      • llewellyL llewelly

                                        @ireneista @futurebird
                                        there are at least 4 different sources of natural C14 variations; high solar activity results in more cosmic rays striking the upper atmosphere, resulting in more C14, skewing dates slightly older. Low solar activity does the opposite. Similarily, up and down variations in magnetic field or ozone layer also cause C14 variations. Large scale fires of coal, oil, and gas deposits can occur naturally, and inject large amouts of old carbon that doesn't contain any C14.

                                        Irenes (many)I This user is from outside of this forum
                                        Irenes (many)I This user is from outside of this forum
                                        Irenes (many)
                                        wrote last edited by
                                        #72

                                        @llewelly @futurebird oh that is fascinating. thank you for the detail!

                                        llewellyL 1 Reply Last reply
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                                        • D. G. MarshallD D. G. Marshall

                                          @futurebird

                                          Microplastics?

                                          I do remember one science fiction story where a human fossil was obviously a time traveller, because:

                                          A) a human skeleton was found in Cretaceous rock, 60 odd million years before anything human evolved

                                          B) the scientist studying the fossil compared an x-ray of the unique pattern of bumps inside the skull, and found a modern human who matched 100%...himself.

                                          Mans RM This user is from outside of this forum
                                          Mans RM This user is from outside of this forum
                                          Mans R
                                          wrote last edited by
                                          #73

                                          @davidtheeviloverlord @futurebird That reminds me tangentially of The Skull by Philip K. Dick.

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