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Chebucto Regional Softball Club

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  3. I don't know how well this puzzle will translate to a toot.
A forum for discussing and organizing recreational softball and baseball games and leagues in the greater Halifax area.

I don't know how well this puzzle will translate to a toot.

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  • myrmepropagandistF myrmepropagandist

    I don't know how well this puzzle will translate to a toot. Imagine each line is on a card:

    □□▷
    □□□
    ■■
    ■
    □■
    □▷▣
    ▣
    □▣
    ■▷
    ■▣
    ▣▷
    □□■
    □▷
    ▣▣
    □□
    □
    ▣□
    □□▣
    ■□
    ▷
    □▷□
    □▷■
    ▣■
    □▷▷

    Put them in order.
    (The 5th graders could do it, but they did have a helpful example first... There may be more than one solution, but I think there is ONE really good order. Can you find it?)

    (I should also mention that every adult I've shown this to gives up. But I only showed it to two rather grouchy teachers.)

    Gaëtan PerraultG This user is from outside of this forum
    Gaëtan PerraultG This user is from outside of this forum
    Gaëtan Perrault
    wrote last edited by
    #44

    @futurebird I really like this. Makes me want to grab a bunch of sticky notes and try this with my own kids.

    But despite not having committed anything to sticky notes, I can kind of see two distinct versions of a pattern here.

    One of them looks like a "counting pattern". Like a base 2 or base 3 counting up. 24 entries, this looks like a round number for something like base 3.

    But I can also see a "moving shapes pattern". Where the shapes are moving through each other in an artistic fashion. In some ways, that might actually be counting, but I think the artistic order is different from the counting order.

    Darn it, I feel like I'm being nerd sniped 😄

    1 Reply Last reply
    0
    • Juniper 🏳️‍⚧️🌲E Juniper 🏳️‍⚧️🌲

      @fell @futurebird I decided that ▷ must be 0 since it never appears leftmost in any multi-symbol card. (And there is no symbol with that property on the right.)

      Gaëtan PerraultG This user is from outside of this forum
      Gaëtan PerraultG This user is from outside of this forum
      Gaëtan Perrault
      wrote last edited by
      #45

      @eruonna @fell @futurebird

      I'm with you on this one. Line 16 to 17 transition looks weird. I would have expected triangle in the far left column, but instead I just get three open blocks.

      It's also notable that open block symbol is dramatically more prevalent. Kind of makes it seem like "the zero" to me.

      1 Reply Last reply
      0
      • myrmepropagandistF myrmepropagandist

        I don't know how well this puzzle will translate to a toot. Imagine each line is on a card:

        □□▷
        □□□
        ■■
        ■
        □■
        □▷▣
        ▣
        □▣
        ■▷
        ■▣
        ▣▷
        □□■
        □▷
        ▣▣
        □□
        □
        ▣□
        □□▣
        ■□
        ▷
        □▷□
        □▷■
        ▣■
        □▷▷

        Put them in order.
        (The 5th graders could do it, but they did have a helpful example first... There may be more than one solution, but I think there is ONE really good order. Can you find it?)

        (I should also mention that every adult I've shown this to gives up. But I only showed it to two rather grouchy teachers.)

        Mason Loring BlissM This user is from outside of this forum
        Mason Loring BlissM This user is from outside of this forum
        Mason Loring Bliss
        wrote last edited by
        #46

        @futurebird

        I don't see a way to determine if ■ is two or three, and ▣ is whichever of those that ■ is not. ▷ is zero. □ is one. Thus, depending on how you assign the two filled-in squares, the order is either

        ▷
        □
        ■
        ▣
        □ ▷
        □ □
        □ ■
        □ ▣
        ■ ▷
        ■ □
        ■ ■
        ■ ▣
        ▣ ▷
        ▣ □
        ▣ ■
        ▣ ▣
        □ ▷ ▷
        □ ▷ □
        □ ▷ ■
        □ ▷ ▣
        □ □ ▷
        □ □ □
        □ □ ■
        □ □ ▣

        or

        ▷
        □
        ▣
        ■
        □ ▷
        □ □
        □ ▣
        □ ■
        ▣ ▷
        ▣ □
        ▣ ▣
        ▣ ■
        ■ ▷
        ■ □
        ■ ▣
        ■ ■
        □ ▷ ▷
        □ ▷ □
        □ ▷ ▣
        □ ▷ ■
        □ □ ▷
        □ □ □
        □ □ ▣
        □ □ ■

        I suspect the ordering of ■ and ▣ is arbitrary given that □ is definitely 1, which makes them all somewhat out of order if we consider the unicode values.

        ▷ 25b7
        □ 25a1
        ■ 25a0
        ▣ 25a3

        I like patterns. Thank you again.

        1 Reply Last reply
        0
        • myrmepropagandistF myrmepropagandist

          I don't know how well this puzzle will translate to a toot. Imagine each line is on a card:

          □□▷
          □□□
          ■■
          ■
          □■
          □▷▣
          ▣
          □▣
          ■▷
          ■▣
          ▣▷
          □□■
          □▷
          ▣▣
          □□
          □
          ▣□
          □□▣
          ■□
          ▷
          □▷□
          □▷■
          ▣■
          □▷▷

          Put them in order.
          (The 5th graders could do it, but they did have a helpful example first... There may be more than one solution, but I think there is ONE really good order. Can you find it?)

          (I should also mention that every adult I've shown this to gives up. But I only showed it to two rather grouchy teachers.)

          S.T. VejeS This user is from outside of this forum
          S.T. VejeS This user is from outside of this forum
          S.T. Veje
          wrote last edited by
          #47

          @futurebird ▷ 001
          □ 002
          ▣ 003
          ■ 004
          □▷ 021
          □□ 022
          □▣ 023
          □■ 024
          ▣▷ 031
          ▣□ 032
          ▣▣ 033
          ▣■ 034
          ■▷ 041
          ■□ 042
          ■▣ 043
          ■■ 044
          □▷▷ 211
          □▷□ 212
          □▷▣ 213
          □▷■ 214
          □□▷ 221
          □□□ 222
          □□▣ 223
          □□■ 224

          1 Reply Last reply
          0
          • myrmepropagandistF myrmepropagandist

            I don't know how well this puzzle will translate to a toot. Imagine each line is on a card:

            □□▷
            □□□
            ■■
            ■
            □■
            □▷▣
            ▣
            □▣
            ■▷
            ■▣
            ▣▷
            □□■
            □▷
            ▣▣
            □□
            □
            ▣□
            □□▣
            ■□
            ▷
            □▷□
            □▷■
            ▣■
            □▷▷

            Put them in order.
            (The 5th graders could do it, but they did have a helpful example first... There may be more than one solution, but I think there is ONE really good order. Can you find it?)

            (I should also mention that every adult I've shown this to gives up. But I only showed it to two rather grouchy teachers.)

            Inga stands with 🇺🇦 🇵🇸I This user is from outside of this forum
            Inga stands with 🇺🇦 🇵🇸I This user is from outside of this forum
            Inga stands with 🇺🇦 🇵🇸
            wrote last edited by
            #48

            @futurebird I'm an adult, and this looks like numbers to me. There are only four letters and too many combinations made of these letters, so it's unlikely that they are words rather than numbers in base-4. (Words written with alphabet typically have much more redundant encoding with much fewer allowed combinations)
            There are four single-character numbers and 12 two-character, with all possible combinations of the characters except the leading triangle in two-character numbers, no language behaves like that.
            None of the numbers (besides single-character triangle) start with triangle, so I'd guess that's 0 and they're written in the same direction as our Arabic numerals. And another guess is that the list is a contiguous chunk of numbers (because at least it contains all numbers from 0 to 15)
            All three-digit numbers start with empty square, so I'd guess that's 1.
            All three-digit numbers start with either 10 or 11, further confirming the "contiguous range" hypothesis. There are all four possible combinations starting with 10, but only three starting with 11, so they must be 110, 111 (we already know how these look like) and 112. Therefore, nested squares is 2.

            Final answer:
            * It's a base-4 alphabet, encoding all integers from 0 to 112 (22 in decimal)
            * Triangle is 0
            * Empty square is 1
            * Empty square with nested filled square is 2
            * Filled square is 3

            1 Reply Last reply
            0
            • myrmepropagandistF myrmepropagandist

              I don't know how well this puzzle will translate to a toot. Imagine each line is on a card:

              □□▷
              □□□
              ■■
              ■
              □■
              □▷▣
              ▣
              □▣
              ■▷
              ■▣
              ▣▷
              □□■
              □▷
              ▣▣
              □□
              □
              ▣□
              □□▣
              ■□
              ▷
              □▷□
              □▷■
              ▣■
              □▷▷

              Put them in order.
              (The 5th graders could do it, but they did have a helpful example first... There may be more than one solution, but I think there is ONE really good order. Can you find it?)

              (I should also mention that every adult I've shown this to gives up. But I only showed it to two rather grouchy teachers.)

              ClayfootC This user is from outside of this forum
              ClayfootC This user is from outside of this forum
              Clayfoot
              wrote last edited by
              #49

              @futurebird

              I think assignment of ▣ and ■ is arbitrary, so I'm going to choose 2 and 3 just to make it easier to remember:
              0 -> empty -> □
              1 -> partial -> ▣
              2 -> filled -> ■
              3 -> triangle -> ▷
              I can then sort the cards easily
              0 to 23 in base 10, or
              0 to 113 in base 4, or
              □ to ▣▣▷ with the cards

              1 Reply Last reply
              0
              • myrmepropagandistF myrmepropagandist

                I don't know how well this puzzle will translate to a toot. Imagine each line is on a card:

                □□▷
                □□□
                ■■
                ■
                □■
                □▷▣
                ▣
                □▣
                ■▷
                ■▣
                ▣▷
                □□■
                □▷
                ▣▣
                □□
                □
                ▣□
                □□▣
                ■□
                ▷
                □▷□
                □▷■
                ▣■
                □▷▷

                Put them in order.
                (The 5th graders could do it, but they did have a helpful example first... There may be more than one solution, but I think there is ONE really good order. Can you find it?)

                (I should also mention that every adult I've shown this to gives up. But I only showed it to two rather grouchy teachers.)

                myrmepropagandistF This user is from outside of this forum
                myrmepropagandistF This user is from outside of this forum
                myrmepropagandist
                wrote last edited by
                #50

                Here is the real puzzle. l

                Ron JeffriesR ? ? Inga stands with 🇺🇦 🇵🇸I 4 Replies Last reply
                0
                • myrmepropagandistF myrmepropagandist shared this topic
                • myrmepropagandistF myrmepropagandist

                  I don't know how well this puzzle will translate to a toot. Imagine each line is on a card:

                  □□▷
                  □□□
                  ■■
                  ■
                  □■
                  □▷▣
                  ▣
                  □▣
                  ■▷
                  ■▣
                  ▣▷
                  □□■
                  □▷
                  ▣▣
                  □□
                  □
                  ▣□
                  □□▣
                  ■□
                  ▷
                  □▷□
                  □▷■
                  ▣■
                  □▷▷

                  Put them in order.
                  (The 5th graders could do it, but they did have a helpful example first... There may be more than one solution, but I think there is ONE really good order. Can you find it?)

                  (I should also mention that every adult I've shown this to gives up. But I only showed it to two rather grouchy teachers.)

                  ? Offline
                  ? Offline
                  Guest
                  wrote last edited by
                  #51

                  @futurebird linear ordering?

                  1 Reply Last reply
                  0
                  • myrmepropagandistF myrmepropagandist

                    Here is the real puzzle. l

                    Ron JeffriesR This user is from outside of this forum
                    Ron JeffriesR This user is from outside of this forum
                    Ron Jeffries
                    wrote last edited by
                    #52

                    @futurebird two of these things are not like the others

                    1 Reply Last reply
                    0
                    • myrmepropagandistF myrmepropagandist

                      Here is the real puzzle. l

                      ? Offline
                      ? Offline
                      Guest
                      wrote last edited by
                      #53

                      @futurebird The puzzle would probably take me hours to solve; I'll just admire the giant stag beetle (I think?) for a while. 😁

                      1 Reply Last reply
                      0
                      • myrmepropagandistF myrmepropagandist

                        I don't know how well this puzzle will translate to a toot. Imagine each line is on a card:

                        □□▷
                        □□□
                        ■■
                        ■
                        □■
                        □▷▣
                        ▣
                        □▣
                        ■▷
                        ■▣
                        ▣▷
                        □□■
                        □▷
                        ▣▣
                        □□
                        □
                        ▣□
                        □□▣
                        ■□
                        ▷
                        □▷□
                        □▷■
                        ▣■
                        □▷▷

                        Put them in order.
                        (The 5th graders could do it, but they did have a helpful example first... There may be more than one solution, but I think there is ONE really good order. Can you find it?)

                        (I should also mention that every adult I've shown this to gives up. But I only showed it to two rather grouchy teachers.)

                        schuelermineA This user is from outside of this forum
                        schuelermineA This user is from outside of this forum
                        schuelermine
                        wrote last edited by
                        #54

                        @futurebird Assuming you're using ▷ to represent the red triangle, it seems to me like there's a card that appears twice in the image but not in your list. Namely the one at the top and at the bottom right, which I'd render as ▷■. At the top the triangle is rotated differently so it's perhaps ■▷? Still, I can't find both of those in the textual representation

                        1 Reply Last reply
                        0
                        • myrmepropagandistF myrmepropagandist

                          I don't know how well this puzzle will translate to a toot. Imagine each line is on a card:

                          □□▷
                          □□□
                          ■■
                          ■
                          □■
                          □▷▣
                          ▣
                          □▣
                          ■▷
                          ■▣
                          ▣▷
                          □□■
                          □▷
                          ▣▣
                          □□
                          □
                          ▣□
                          □□▣
                          ■□
                          ▷
                          □▷□
                          □▷■
                          ▣■
                          □▷▷

                          Put them in order.
                          (The 5th graders could do it, but they did have a helpful example first... There may be more than one solution, but I think there is ONE really good order. Can you find it?)

                          (I should also mention that every adult I've shown this to gives up. But I only showed it to two rather grouchy teachers.)

                          ? Offline
                          ? Offline
                          Guest
                          wrote last edited by
                          #55

                          @futurebird Have you seen the game "A Little to the Left"? It's very cute and this post leads me to think you would enjoy it 😄

                          1 Reply Last reply
                          0
                          • myrmepropagandistF myrmepropagandist

                            I don't know how well this puzzle will translate to a toot. Imagine each line is on a card:

                            □□▷
                            □□□
                            ■■
                            ■
                            □■
                            □▷▣
                            ▣
                            □▣
                            ■▷
                            ■▣
                            ▣▷
                            □□■
                            □▷
                            ▣▣
                            □□
                            □
                            ▣□
                            □□▣
                            ■□
                            ▷
                            □▷□
                            □▷■
                            ▣■
                            □▷▷

                            Put them in order.
                            (The 5th graders could do it, but they did have a helpful example first... There may be more than one solution, but I think there is ONE really good order. Can you find it?)

                            (I should also mention that every adult I've shown this to gives up. But I only showed it to two rather grouchy teachers.)

                            schuelermineA This user is from outside of this forum
                            schuelermineA This user is from outside of this forum
                            schuelermine
                            wrote last edited by
                            #56

                            @futurebird I haven't checked exhaustively, but it seems to me that interpreting this as base 4 is sensible, and you can deduce that ▷=0 and □=1, but I don't see a way to pin down the values of ▣■…

                            1 Reply Last reply
                            0
                            • myrmepropagandistF myrmepropagandist

                              Here is the real puzzle. l

                              ? Offline
                              ? Offline
                              Guest
                              wrote last edited by
                              #57

                              @futurebird I am confident the beetle will solve it

                              myrmepropagandistF 1 Reply Last reply
                              0
                              • myrmepropagandistF myrmepropagandist

                                I don't know how well this puzzle will translate to a toot. Imagine each line is on a card:

                                □□▷
                                □□□
                                ■■
                                ■
                                □■
                                □▷▣
                                ▣
                                □▣
                                ■▷
                                ■▣
                                ▣▷
                                □□■
                                □▷
                                ▣▣
                                □□
                                □
                                ▣□
                                □□▣
                                ■□
                                ▷
                                □▷□
                                □▷■
                                ▣■
                                □▷▷

                                Put them in order.
                                (The 5th graders could do it, but they did have a helpful example first... There may be more than one solution, but I think there is ONE really good order. Can you find it?)

                                (I should also mention that every adult I've shown this to gives up. But I only showed it to two rather grouchy teachers.)

                                James GilbertJ This user is from outside of this forum
                                James GilbertJ This user is from outside of this forum
                                James Gilbert
                                wrote last edited by
                                #58

                                @futurebird

                                1 □
                                2 ■
                                3 ▣
                                4 ▷
                                11 □□
                                12 □■
                                13 □▣
                                14 □▷
                                21 ■□
                                22 ■■
                                23 ■▣
                                24 ■▷
                                31 ▣□
                                32 ▣■
                                33 ▣▣
                                34 ▣▷
                                111 □□□
                                112 □□■
                                113 □□▣
                                114 □□▷
                                141 □▷□
                                142 □▷■
                                143 □▷▣
                                144 □▷▷

                                James GilbertJ 1 Reply Last reply
                                0
                                • James GilbertJ James Gilbert

                                  @futurebird

                                  1 □
                                  2 ■
                                  3 ▣
                                  4 ▷
                                  11 □□
                                  12 □■
                                  13 □▣
                                  14 □▷
                                  21 ■□
                                  22 ■■
                                  23 ■▣
                                  24 ■▷
                                  31 ▣□
                                  32 ▣■
                                  33 ▣▣
                                  34 ▣▷
                                  111 □□□
                                  112 □□■
                                  113 □□▣
                                  114 □□▷
                                  141 □▷□
                                  142 □▷■
                                  143 □▷▣
                                  144 □▷▷

                                  James GilbertJ This user is from outside of this forum
                                  James GilbertJ This user is from outside of this forum
                                  James Gilbert
                                  wrote last edited by
                                  #59

                                  @futurebird Digits fixed, now that I've identified the zero, and it is base 4:

                                  0 ▷
                                  1 □
                                  2 ▣
                                  3 ■
                                  10 □▷
                                  11 □□
                                  12 □▣
                                  13 □■
                                  20 ▣▷
                                  21 ▣□
                                  22 ▣▣
                                  23 ▣■
                                  30 ■▷
                                  31 ■□
                                  32 ■▣
                                  33 ■■
                                  100 □▷▷
                                  101 □▷□
                                  102 □▷▣
                                  103 □▷■
                                  110 □□▷
                                  111 □□□
                                  112 □□▣
                                  113 □□■

                                  James GilbertJ 1 Reply Last reply
                                  0
                                  • ? Guest

                                    @futurebird I am confident the beetle will solve it

                                    myrmepropagandistF This user is from outside of this forum
                                    myrmepropagandistF This user is from outside of this forum
                                    myrmepropagandist
                                    wrote last edited by
                                    #60

                                    @VoiceofDuum

                                    He's very frustrated that it takes so long to move each card to a new location.

                                    1 Reply Last reply
                                    0
                                    • James GilbertJ James Gilbert

                                      @futurebird Digits fixed, now that I've identified the zero, and it is base 4:

                                      0 ▷
                                      1 □
                                      2 ▣
                                      3 ■
                                      10 □▷
                                      11 □□
                                      12 □▣
                                      13 □■
                                      20 ▣▷
                                      21 ▣□
                                      22 ▣▣
                                      23 ▣■
                                      30 ■▷
                                      31 ■□
                                      32 ■▣
                                      33 ■■
                                      100 □▷▷
                                      101 □▷□
                                      102 □▷▣
                                      103 □▷■
                                      110 □□▷
                                      111 □□□
                                      112 □□▣
                                      113 □□■

                                      James GilbertJ This user is from outside of this forum
                                      James GilbertJ This user is from outside of this forum
                                      James Gilbert
                                      wrote last edited by
                                      #61

                                      @futurebird If you were to remove the zero card and add a 120 card, then the order would be unambiguous. The symbols for 2 and 3 are currently interchangeable, leaving two solutions.

                                      1 Reply Last reply
                                      0
                                      • myrmepropagandistF myrmepropagandist

                                        Here is the real puzzle. l

                                        Inga stands with 🇺🇦 🇵🇸I This user is from outside of this forum
                                        Inga stands with 🇺🇦 🇵🇸I This user is from outside of this forum
                                        Inga stands with 🇺🇦 🇵🇸
                                        wrote last edited by
                                        #62

                                        @futurebird once again we have four characters, four cards with each of the characters, and 12 cards with two-character combinations, so I'm just going to assume it's like the last time, base-4.
                                        On 12 two-character cards, we get one with two triangles, one with two filled circles, one with two squares, but none with two empty circles. Therefore empty circle is zero.
                                        Now from the card with empty circle and triangle we can deduce that if we write digits in the same order as usual, more senior to the left, less senior to the right, then the correct orientation of triangle is the one where the right angle is to the bottom left of diagonal.
                                        Rotating all cards with triangles to their right orientation, we see that in three-digit numbers, triangles only occur in the rightmost position, and in the leftmost it's always filled circle. This probably means that filled circle means 1.
                                        "Filled circle, square, empty circle" card is oriented properly because empty circle is zero. But we never see a three-digit number with triangle in the middle. Assuming, like in the previous puzzle, that the numbers are consequential, we get that square is 2 and triangle is 3.

                                        The numbers on the cards are, in base-4 with Arabic digits:
                                        32 in the second (only) column of the top row.
                                        31, 20, 11, 2.
                                        113, 103, 100, 13.
                                        0, 3, 102, 12 or 21 (impossible to determine if it's upside down or not).
                                        120, 101, 30, 22.
                                        112, 110, 33, 1.
                                        111, 21 or 12, 23, 10.

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                                        • myrmepropagandistF myrmepropagandist

                                          @xarvos

                                          There is more than one valid solution.

                                          der.hansL This user is from outside of this forum
                                          der.hansL This user is from outside of this forum
                                          der.hans
                                          wrote last edited by
                                          #63

                                          @futurebird @xarvos There are 24 lines in your box empty, box full, box outline, triangle example. I swapped to , " : > to work in terminal

                                          It seems one more or one fewer would allow determining which is the 3rd and which is 4th symbol

                                          Your card example has 25 cards, and a beetle assistant, so I skipped to 3 symbol cards and I believe the 25th card solidifies the order as:

                                          circle
                                          earth
                                          square
                                          triangle

                                          For the cards also had to figure out left to right order, but I think I got that correct

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