@futurebird It's also what a proper biblical literalist would do. c.f. "Year of Jubilee."

@DrHyde

I'm on the verge of boycotting anything that makes such offers. It's immoral. It makes me think less of them for even asking.

Because if they are asking then someone has said "yes." Maybe someone HAD to say "yes." How can you be OK with making money like that? Squeezing it out of desperate people like blood.

Mosquito behavior.

@jmax

I think this is a great idea but I'm a little worried that if we started talking about it somehow Sam Altman would pop up out of nowhere and it'd only end up applying to big companies who have made a debt mess on purpose knowing full well what they were doing.

And the person who was just trying to buy a box of cereal will still need to make all four installment payments or get buried in more debt.

How is "too big to fail" not just Year of Jubilee." for the rich?

@futurebird
The payment processor I use on my webshop started offering these payment plan things about a year ago. I was surprised, went in, turned it off. Then a few weeks ago they changed the checkout process, and bang, it was back. Even though I explicitly switched it off for my site. I had to dig in and find two more toggles. It is gone now, but they are pushing it hard. It must be incredibly profitable for them.

@DrHyde

@carstenfranke @futurebird @DrHyde I feel like it's about weekly I hear something new scary about small finance in the US.

(We have that in Europe too via Klarna, but usually it's no-fees-no-interest on small purchases like that.)

I know in my core the only reason I don't have debt is because we had a little financial security growing up. And I haven't been hit by the natural and man made disasters that push people into this corner. Not about "financial planning" to the degree people think.

When I was younger, more broke over draft fees nearly ruined my life.

A $30 fee on a $4 purchase. I fought it. Yelled at them on the phone until they removed it. "Why would you think anyone would want this service?"

Buying some perfume online.

"Would you like an installment plan?"

For a $26 purchase.

If I wanted I could set up the installment plan for the $26 purchase and have it charge my credit card.

Call it "micro leverage on leverage."

Some puritanical grumpy voice deep in me that came from my dad is grumbling that it ought to be illegal to buy something like perfume like this. But really it shouldn't be possible for any purchase. In some ways buying food this way would be a sadder story.

Buying some perfume online.

"Would you like an installment plan?"

For a $26 purchase.

If I wanted I could set up the installment plan for the $26 purchase and have it charge my credit card.

Call it "micro leverage on leverage."

Some puritanical grumpy voice deep in me that came from my dad is grumbling that it ought to be illegal to buy something like perfume like this. But really it shouldn't be possible for any purchase. In some ways buying food this way would be a sadder story.

@futurebird people are using things like Klarna to buy groceries

@futurebird @jmax
alas..
can't help thinking we should always have a Graeber's "Debt: The First 5000 Years,Updated and Expanded" hardcover at hand to smash the head of the potential popping-up Sam Altman or like..

@akamran @futurebird Yeah, BNPL services are in 3 types of bubbles right now. 1) consumer bubble, where individuals are getting into more (underreported) debt that they won't be able to repay; 2) market bubble, where investments in BNPL companies are way too high considering their underlying financials; and 3) economic bubble, where broader economic analysts believe the economy is healthy because consumer spending is up and CC debt is down, even though this spending is driven by BNPL services.

@Jumpmed @futurebird unregulated financial activity, what could go wrong? ‍️

@futurebird We used to have strong usury laws. Credit card companies got them weakened, under Reagan IIRC.

Every time I see a rate over 10% it is a reminder of how corrupted our capitalism has become.

@jmax

I think this is a great idea but I'm a little worried that if we started talking about it somehow Sam Altman would pop up out of nowhere and it'd only end up applying to big companies who have made a debt mess on purpose knowing full well what they were doing.

And the person who was just trying to buy a box of cereal will still need to make all four installment payments or get buried in more debt.

How is "too big to fail" not just Year of Jubilee." for the rich?

@jmax @futurebird Sam Altman popping out of no where is unadulterated nightmare fuel

@bituur_esztreym @futurebird @jmax

“Temples Of Enterprise” By Michael Hudson

Hudson’s treatment is a much more purely historical account of the evolution of debt, finance and oligarchy. Oligarchy has been responsible for the collapse of multiple civilizations.