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Carmack defends AI tools after Quake fan calls Microsoft AI demo “disgusting”
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There's a difference between LLMs making games and LLMs trained to play characters in a game.
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Demonstrating some crazy idea always confuses people who expect a finished product. The fact this works *at all* is sci-fi witchcraft. Video generators offer rendering without models, levels, textures, shaders-- anything. And they'll do shocking photorealism as easily as cartoons. This one runs at interactive speeds. That's fucking crazy! It's only doing one part of one game that'd run on a potato, and it's not doing it especially well, but holy shit, it's doing it. Even if the context length stayed laughably short - this is an FMV you can walk around in. This is something artists could feed and prune and get real fuckin' weird with, until it's an inescapable dream sequence that looks like nothing we know how to render. > The most realistic near-term application of generative AI technology remains as coding assistants and perhaps rapid prototyping tools for developers, rather than a drop-in replacement for traditional game development pipelines. Sure, let's pretend text is all it can generate. Not textures, models, character designs, et very cetera. What possible use could people have for an army of robots if they only do a half-assed job?
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You can count the number of times DLSS makes a game look worse on a single hand. It very often looks *better* than native with significantly less aliasing/shimmering and better detail. At worst it basically looks the same as native, which is still a massive win as it means you get more performance.
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At least the DLSS I've seen looks terrible. I've tried it in a bunch of games, and it produces visible artifacts that are worse than TAA. Cyberpunk 2077 is a great example. Newer versions are supposedly better, but I haven't seen them yet.> Cyberpunk 2077 is a great example. You're kidding, right? Cyberpunk looks *better* with DLSS4 than it does natively lol. https://youtu.be/viQA-8e9kfE?t=13
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AAA dev here. Carmack is correct. I expect to be dogpiled by uninformed disagreements, though, because on social media all AI = Bad and no nuance is allowed.AAAA dev here. Carmack is incorrect.
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Ok, but... You know there's a person operating that AI right? You seem to be separating the tool from the user. Which is not rare, but it _is_ weird.
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Ok, but... You know there's a person operating that AI right? You seem to be separating the tool from the user. Which is not rare, but it _is_ weird.Hold on, in this scenario you're mad at the *user* of the AI app, not at the *maker* of it? As in, you're fine with the tools being trained and made as long as people use them right? I don't think you're aligned with the zeitgeist there.
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Hold on, in this scenario you're mad at the *user* of the AI app, not at the *maker* of it? As in, you're fine with the tools being trained and made as long as people use them right? I don't think you're aligned with the zeitgeist there.Please do me a favor and quote the part of that comment where I claimed I'm fine with the way AI is made.
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Please do me a favor and quote the part of that comment where I claimed I'm fine with the way AI is made.You said "there's a person operating the AI" and you referred to separating "the tool from the user". Please do me a favor and quote the part of that comment that refers to the way the AI is made at all. The point you were parroting was pointing out that the "AI good/bad debate" isn't a judgement of value of the technology underlying the applications, it's an assessment of what the companies making apps with this technology are doing with it on each individual application. I never brought up the user in this. The user is pretty much neutral. The "person operating the AI" isn't a factor here, it's some constant outside the debate where we assume some amount of people will use the tools provided for them in the way the tools are designed.
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You said "there's a person operating the AI" and you referred to separating "the tool from the user". Please do me a favor and quote the part of that comment that refers to the way the AI is made at all. The point you were parroting was pointing out that the "AI good/bad debate" isn't a judgement of value of the technology underlying the applications, it's an assessment of what the companies making apps with this technology are doing with it on each individual application. I never brought up the user in this. The user is pretty much neutral. The "person operating the AI" isn't a factor here, it's some constant outside the debate where we assume some amount of people will use the tools provided for them in the way the tools are designed.> The point you were parroting And again with words in my mouth. That wasn't even close to my point! My point was that you were unnecessarily sarcastic in a rude way to someone. Beyond that, your comment made absolutely no sense because you were telling them that they were mad at the tool instead of the way the people are using the tool. Which, if you go back and read their comments, is what they were actually upset about. They didn't make much, if any comment about AI itself, but rather the way people are using it.
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> The point you were parroting And again with words in my mouth. That wasn't even close to my point! My point was that you were unnecessarily sarcastic in a rude way to someone. Beyond that, your comment made absolutely no sense because you were telling them that they were mad at the tool instead of the way the people are using the tool. Which, if you go back and read their comments, is what they were actually upset about. They didn't make much, if any comment about AI itself, but rather the way people are using it.How was that your point? You just rephrased the original comment with some different wording. In what universe would someone have looked at that and gone "ah, some witty commentary on how unnecessarily sarcastic my post was; furthermore, on the inconsistency between my original retort and the subjects of the previous post". Did you just forget to write that part the first time? Do you think I can read your mind? How was this supposed to work?
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Demonstrating some crazy idea always confuses people who expect a finished product. The fact this works *at all* is sci-fi witchcraft. Video generators offer rendering without models, levels, textures, shaders-- anything. And they'll do shocking photorealism as easily as cartoons. This one runs at interactive speeds. That's fucking crazy! It's only doing one part of one game that'd run on a potato, and it's not doing it especially well, but holy shit, it's doing it. Even if the context length stayed laughably short - this is an FMV you can walk around in. This is something artists could feed and prune and get real fuckin' weird with, until it's an inescapable dream sequence that looks like nothing we know how to render. > The most realistic near-term application of generative AI technology remains as coding assistants and perhaps rapid prototyping tools for developers, rather than a drop-in replacement for traditional game development pipelines. Sure, let's pretend text is all it can generate. Not textures, models, character designs, et very cetera. What possible use could people have for an army of robots if they only do a half-assed job?Imagine how much better bg3 would have been if there were *more* randomly distributed misc items of no value strewn across each map. Think of how fast you'd kill your mouse *then*!
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It's fundamentally a make-shit-up device. It's like pulling words out of a hat. You cannot get mad at the hat for giving you poetry when you asked for nonfiction. Get mad at the company which bolted the hat to your keyboard and promised you it was psychic.I think that's exactly who they're mad at
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There’s what AI could’ve been (collaborative and awesome), and then there’s what the billionaire class is pushing today (exploitative shit that they hit everyone over the head with until they say they like it). But the folks frothing at the mouth over it are unwilling to listen to why so many people are against the AI we’ve had forced upon us today.
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When it's other people's work, well, people need a nuanced opinion about this nascent technological breakthrough. When it's your specific area of expertise, it's "the plagiarism machine." You are Knoll's law personified.
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> What has ACTUALLY decimated my industry is the overvaluation and inflation of everything in the economy The real answer, like every creative industry over the past 200+ years, is oversaturation. Artists starve because of oversaturation. There is too much art and not enough buyers. Musicians starve because of oversaturation. And music is now easier than ever to create. Supply is everywhere, and demand pales in comparison. I have hundreds of CC BY-SA 4.0 artists in a file that I can choose for use in my videos, because the supply is everywhere. Video games are incredibly oversaturated. Throw a stick at Steam, and it'll land on a thousand games. There's plenty of random low-effort slop out there, but there's also a lot of passionate indie creators trying to make their mark, and failing, because the marketing is not there. Millions of people shouting in the wind, trying to make their voices heard, and somehow become more noticed than the rest of the noise. It's a near-impossible task, and it's about 98% luck. Yet the 2% of people who actually "make it" practice survivorship bias on a daily basis, preaching that hard work and good ideas will allow you to be just like them. It's all bullshit, of course. We don't live in a meritocracy.
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AAAA dev here. Carmack is incorrect.
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How was that your point? You just rephrased the original comment with some different wording. In what universe would someone have looked at that and gone "ah, some witty commentary on how unnecessarily sarcastic my post was; furthermore, on the inconsistency between my original retort and the subjects of the previous post". Did you just forget to write that part the first time? Do you think I can read your mind? How was this supposed to work?> In what universe would someone have looked at that and gone... I repeated you nearly word for word, only substituting a few words. Go ahead and look up "parody"
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I love how you didn't read anything else I wrote regarding this and boiled it down to a quippy, holier-than-thou and wrong statement with no nuance. Typical internet dumbass.Oh my god you're still trying to have it both ways.
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Imagine how much better bg3 would have been if there were *more* randomly distributed misc items of no value strewn across each map. Think of how fast you'd kill your mouse *then*!This is what I'm talking about: an unwillingness to see anything but finished products. Not developing the content *in* a big-ass game... just adding stuff *to* a big-ass game. Like BG3 begins fully-formed as the exact product you've already played. Like it'd be awful if similar new games took less than six years, three hundred people, and one hundred million dollars.