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Carmack defends AI tools after Quake fan calls Microsoft AI demo “disgusting”
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Speak for yourself. As an avid gamer I am excitedly looking towards the future of AI in games. Good models (with context buffers *much* longer than the .9s in this demo) have the potential to revolutionise the gaming industry. I really don't understand the amount of LLM/AI hate in Lemmy. It is a tool with many potential uses.There's a difference between LLMs making games and LLMs trained to play characters in a game.
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What AI tools are you personally looking forward to or already using?Not me personally, as AI can't really replicate my work (I'm a sound designer on a big game), but [a few colleagues of mine have already begun reaping the workflow improvements of AI at their studio.](https://gameworldobserver.com/2022/12/19/how-ai-helps-artists-gearbox-borderlands-prevent-crunch)
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DLSS (AI upscaling) alone should see gamers embracing the tech. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deep_Learning_Super_Samplingfirst thing I turn off. It only works in tech demos with very slow moving cameras. Sometimes
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OK, but... you know AI isn't a *person*, right? You seem to be mad at math. Which is not rare, but it *is* weird... yeah, I'm aware AI isn't a person. I'm not sure why that's a question? Maybe I phrased things badly, but I'm not- nor have I ever- been really *mad* about AI usage. It's mostly just disappointment. It's just a technology. I just largely dislike the way it's being used, partly because I feel like it has a lot of potential.
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Not me personally, as AI can't really replicate my work (I'm a sound designer on a big game), but [a few colleagues of mine have already begun reaping the workflow improvements of AI at their studio.](https://gameworldobserver.com/2022/12/19/how-ai-helps-artists-gearbox-borderlands-prevent-crunch)Obviously AI is coming for sound designers too. You know that right? https://elevenlabs.io/sound-effects And if you work on games and you haven’t seen your industry decimated in the past 16 months, I want to know what rock you have been living under and if there’s room for one more.
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What are you talking about? It looks like shit, it plays like shit and the overall experience is shit. And it isn't even clear what the goal is? There are so many better ways to incorporate AI into game development, if one wanted to and I'm not sure we want to. I have seen people argue this is what the technology can do today, imagine in a couple of years. However that seems very naive. The rate at which barriers are reached have no impact on how hard it is to break through those barriers. And as often in life, diminishing returns are a bitch. Microsoft bet big on this AI thing, because they have been lost in what to do ever since they released things like the Windows Phone and Windows 8. They don't know how to innovate anymore, so they are going all in on AI. Shitting out new gimmicks at light speed to see which gain traction. (Please note I'm talking about the consumer and small business side of Microsoft. Microsoft is a huge company with divisions that act almost like seperate companies within. Their Azure branch for example has been massively successful and does innovate just fine.)I'm happy to see someone else pushing back against the inevitability line I see so much around this tech. It's still incredibly new and there's no guarantee it will continue to improve. Could it? Sure, but I think it's equally likely it could start to degrade instead due to ai inbreeding or power consumption becoming too big of an issue with larger adoption. No one actually knows the future and it's hardly inevitable.
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Still have limited wafers at the fabs. The chips going to datacenters could have been consumer stuff instead. Besides they (nVidia, Apple, AMD) are all fabricated at TSMC. Local AI benefits from platforms with unified memory that can be expanded. Watch platforms based on AMD's Ryzen AI MAX 300 chip or whatever they call it take off. Frameworks you can config a machine with that chip to 128 GB RAM iirc. It's the main reason why I believe Apple's memory upgrades cost a ton so that it isn't a viable option financially for local AI applications.> The chips going to datacenters could have been consumer stuff instead. This is true, but again, they do use different processes. The B100 (and I *think* the 5090) is TSMC 4NP, while the other chips use a lesser process. Hopper (the H100) was TSMC 4N, Ada Lovelace (RTX 4000) was TSMC *N4*. The 3000 series/A100 was straight up split between Samsung and TSMC. The AMD 7000 was a mix of older N5/N6 due to the MCM design. > Local AI benefits from platforms with unified memory that can be expanded. This is tricky because expandable memory is orthogonal to bandwidth and power efficiency. Framework (ostensibly) *had* to use soldered memory for their Strix Halo box because it's literally the only way to make the traces good enough: SO-DIMMs are absolutely not fast enough, and even LPCAMM apparently isn't there yet. > AMD’s Ryzen AI MAX 300 chip Funny thing is the community is still quite lukewarm to the AMD APUs due to poor software support. It works okay... if you're a python dev that can spend hours screwing with rocm to get things fast
But it's quite slow/underutilized if you just run popular frameworks like ollama or the old diffusion ones. > It’s the main reason why I believe Apple’s memory upgrades cost a ton so that it isn’t a viable option financially for local AI applications. Nah, Apple's been gouging memory *way* before AI was a thing. It's their thing, and honestly it kinda backfired because it made them so unaffordable for AI. Also, Apple's stuff is actually... Not *great* for AI anyway. The M-chips have relatively poor software support (no pytorch, MLX is barebones, leaving you stranded with GGML mostly). They don't have much compute compared to a GPU or even an AMD APU, the NPU part is useless. Unified memory doesn't help at all, it's just that their stuff *happens* to have a ton of memory hanging off the GPU, which is useful.
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Obviously AI is coming for sound designers too. You know that right? https://elevenlabs.io/sound-effects And if you work on games and you haven’t seen your industry decimated in the past 16 months, I want to know what rock you have been living under and if there’s room for one more.I love when regular folks act like they understand things better than inustry insiders near the top of their respective field. It's genuinely amusing. Let me ask you a simple question: do YOU want to play a game with mediocre, lowest-common-denominator-generated AI audio? Or do you want something crafted by a human with feelings (a thing an AI model does not have) and the ability to create unique design crafted specifically to create emotional resonance with you (and thing an AI has exactly zero intuition for)? Answers on a postcard, thanks. The market agrees with me as well. And no, I have not seen my industry decimated by AI. Talk to any experienced AAA game dev on LinkedIn, it's not really a thing. There still is and always will be a huge demand for art specifically created by humans and for humans for the exact reasons listed above. What has ACTUALLY decimated my industry is the overvaluation and inflation of everything in the economy, and now the low-interest rates put in place to counter it, which is leading to layoffs once giant games don't generate the insane profit targets suits have, which is likely what you are ereoneously attributing to AI displacement.
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I love when regular folks act like they understand things better than inustry insiders near the top of their respective field. It's genuinely amusing. Let me ask you a simple question: do YOU want to play a game with mediocre, lowest-common-denominator-generated AI audio? Or do you want something crafted by a human with feelings (a thing an AI model does not have) and the ability to create unique design crafted specifically to create emotional resonance with you (and thing an AI has exactly zero intuition for)? Answers on a postcard, thanks. The market agrees with me as well. And no, I have not seen my industry decimated by AI. Talk to any experienced AAA game dev on LinkedIn, it's not really a thing. There still is and always will be a huge demand for art specifically created by humans and for humans for the exact reasons listed above. What has ACTUALLY decimated my industry is the overvaluation and inflation of everything in the economy, and now the low-interest rates put in place to counter it, which is leading to layoffs once giant games don't generate the insane profit targets suits have, which is likely what you are ereoneously attributing to AI displacement.Do you remember the music from the last Marvel film you watched? I don't. Quality isn't directly correlated to success. Buy a modern pair of Nikes or... Go to McDonalds, play a modern mobile game. I love when industry insiders think they're so untouchable that a budget cut wouldn't have them in the chopping block. You're defensive because its your ass on the line, not because its true. People gargle shit products and pay for them willingly all day long. You're just insulated from it, for now.
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I'm pretty sure the fabs making the chips for datacenter cards could be making more consumer grade cards but those are less profitable. And since fabs aren't infinite the price of datacenter cards is still going to affect consumer ones.Heh, especially for this generation I suppose. Even the Arc B580 is on TSMC and overpriced/OOS everywhere. It's kinda their own stupid fault too. They could've uses Samsung or Intel, and a bigger slower die for each SKU, but didn't.
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Do you remember the music from the last Marvel film you watched? I don't. Quality isn't directly correlated to success. Buy a modern pair of Nikes or... Go to McDonalds, play a modern mobile game. I love when industry insiders think they're so untouchable that a budget cut wouldn't have them in the chopping block. You're defensive because its your ass on the line, not because its true. People gargle shit products and pay for them willingly all day long. You're just insulated from it, for now.
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There’s what AI could’ve been (collaborative and awesome), and then there’s what the billionaire class is pushing today (exploitative shit that they hit everyone over the head with until they say they like it). But the folks frothing at the mouth over it are unwilling to listen to why so many people are against the AI we’ve had forced upon us today.A guy I used to work with would, at least I would swear it, submit shit code just so I would comment about the right way to do it. No matter how many times I told him how to do something. Sometimes it was code that didn't actually do anything. Working with co-pilot is a lot like working with that guy again.
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A guy I used to work with would, at least I would swear it, submit shit code just so I would comment about the right way to do it. No matter how many times I told him how to do something. Sometimes it was code that didn't actually do anything. Working with co-pilot is a lot like working with that guy again.Funny enough, here’s a description of AI I wrote yesterday that I think you’ll relate to: > AI is the lazy colleague that will never get fired because their dad is the CTO. You’re forced to pair with them on a daily basis. You try to hand them menial tasks that they still manage to get completely wrong, while dear ol’ dad is gassing them up in every all-hands meeting.
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"Oh no, all my quality work won't be in the next marvel movie, darn. Guess I'll have to make and sell something else." ~ Literally every artist What's your favorite AI-generated game, again?At this point, it should be obvious that no one is downvoting you because they believe you're wrong. Rather, its because you're an inflated, insecure douchebag who's so threatened by the opinions of two federated users on the ass end of the internet, that he feels the need to write and essay about it. And for the record, I'm not one of the believers. On a long enough timeline, you'll be playing birthday parties dressed as a cowboy. Ai is improving while people have a bell curve. It's only a matter of time. Cheers. I hope you find happiness one day.
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What AI tools are you personally looking forward to or already using?Stable Diffusion does a lot already, for static pictures. I get good use out of Eleven for voice work, when I want something that isn't my own narration. I'm really looking forward to all of these new AI features in [DaVinci Resolve 20](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ALu9qspWK68). These are actual useful features that would improve my workflow. I already made good use of the "Create Subtitles From Audio" feature to streamline subtitling. Good AI tools are out there. They are just invisibility doing the work for people that pay attention while all of the billionaires make noise about LLMs that do almost nothing. I compare it to CGI. The very best CGI are the effects you don't even notice. The worst CGI is when you try to employ it in every place that it's not designed for.
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There’s what AI could’ve been (collaborative and awesome), and then there’s what the billionaire class is pushing today (exploitative shit that they hit everyone over the head with until they say they like it). But the folks frothing at the mouth over it are unwilling to listen to why so many people are against the AI we’ve had forced upon us today.It's fundamentally a make-shit-up device. It's like pulling words out of a hat. You cannot get mad at the hat for giving you poetry when you asked for nonfiction. Get mad at the company which bolted the hat to your keyboard and promised you it was psychic.
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I love when regular folks act like they understand things better than inustry insiders near the top of their respective field. It's genuinely amusing. Let me ask you a simple question: do YOU want to play a game with mediocre, lowest-common-denominator-generated AI audio? Or do you want something crafted by a human with feelings (a thing an AI model does not have) and the ability to create unique design crafted specifically to create emotional resonance with you (and thing an AI has exactly zero intuition for)? Answers on a postcard, thanks. The market agrees with me as well. And no, I have not seen my industry decimated by AI. Talk to any experienced AAA game dev on LinkedIn, it's not really a thing. There still is and always will be a huge demand for art specifically created by humans and for humans for the exact reasons listed above. What has ACTUALLY decimated my industry is the overvaluation and inflation of everything in the economy, and now the low-interest rates put in place to counter it, which is leading to layoffs once giant games don't generate the insane profit targets suits have, which is likely what you are ereoneously attributing to AI displacement.> What has ACTUALLY decimated my industry is the overvaluation and inflation of everything in the economy The real answer, like every creative industry over the past 200+ years, is oversaturation. Artists starve because of oversaturation. There is too much art and not enough buyers. Musicians starve because of oversaturation. And music is now easier than ever to create. Supply is everywhere, and demand pales in comparison. I have hundreds of CC BY-SA 4.0 artists in a file that I can choose for use in my videos, because the supply is everywhere. Video games are incredibly oversaturated. Throw a stick at Steam, and it'll land on a thousand games. There's plenty of random low-effort slop out there, but there's also a lot of passionate indie creators trying to make their mark, and failing, because the marketing is not there. Millions of people shouting in the wind, trying to make their voices heard, and somehow become more noticed than the rest of the noise. It's a near-impossible task, and it's about 98% luck. Yet the 2% of people who actually "make it" practice survivorship bias on a daily basis, preaching that hard work and good ideas will allow you to be just like them. It's all bullshit, of course. We don't live in a meritocracy.
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Do you remember the music from the last Marvel film you watched? I don't. Quality isn't directly correlated to success. Buy a modern pair of Nikes or... Go to McDonalds, play a modern mobile game. I love when industry insiders think they're so untouchable that a budget cut wouldn't have them in the chopping block. You're defensive because its your ass on the line, not because its true. People gargle shit products and pay for them willingly all day long. You're just insulated from it, for now.> Do you remember the music from the last Marvel film you watched? > > I don’t. [That's a different kind of problem.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7vfqkvwW2fs)
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I love when regular folks act like they understand things better than inustry insiders near the top of their respective field. It's genuinely amusing. Let me ask you a simple question: do YOU want to play a game with mediocre, lowest-common-denominator-generated AI audio? Or do you want something crafted by a human with feelings (a thing an AI model does not have) and the ability to create unique design crafted specifically to create emotional resonance with you (and thing an AI has exactly zero intuition for)? Answers on a postcard, thanks. The market agrees with me as well. And no, I have not seen my industry decimated by AI. Talk to any experienced AAA game dev on LinkedIn, it's not really a thing. There still is and always will be a huge demand for art specifically created by humans and for humans for the exact reasons listed above. What has ACTUALLY decimated my industry is the overvaluation and inflation of everything in the economy, and now the low-interest rates put in place to counter it, which is leading to layoffs once giant games don't generate the insane profit targets suits have, which is likely what you are ereoneously attributing to AI displacement.When it's other people's work, well, people need a nuanced opinion about this nascent technological breakthrough. When it's your specific area of expertise, it's "the plagiarism machine." You are Knoll's law personified.
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When it's other people's work, well, people need a nuanced opinion about this nascent technological breakthrough. When it's your specific area of expertise, it's "the plagiarism machine." You are Knoll's law personified.And yeah yeah yeah, it does a mediocre job of whatever you do. That's the opposite of safety. Disruptive change only cares about whether it can do the job. Already the answer seems to be a soft yes. Right now is the worst the tech will ever be, again.