@futurebird it's still a very persistent idea nowadays (he said, having only anecdotal evidence).

It seems to me it's a lingering outdated fact which used to be true and used both for and against changes in our societies. Now that the numbers tell us the divorce rate is far lower (and has been for some time), there isn't the same push to publicize that fact, because it's "as it should be." (Not sure I'm being very clear, here.)

@futurebird oh, mom still believes that "the kids today aren't staying married". It came up in conversation just yesterday.

I wonder, if like crime, if you asked people if divorce is a big problem if people would still overestimate it?

The fall in the divorce rate presents a problem for conservatives who want to talk about how "the family is being destroyed" (which family? how?)

But I wonder if people still think that a large number of marriages are ending in divorce.

@futurebird I definitely still thought that. In my immediate social circle, I would estimate about half the people have been divorced. (Even if they are remarried).

@catmisgivings

Yeah, that's totally false. We live in a golden age of fidelity and commitment.

The secret? Only "commit" if you really want to.

The bitter irony of the "family is being destroyed" crowd destroying families by trying to ban gay marriage, scapegoating and persecuting trans people, deporting parts of perfectly happy families over minor paperwork errors or nothing...

I almost don't like to point out hypocrisy any more because to do so implies some set of shared vales and a capacity for caring that simply isn't there.

But I am very upset about all of these "attacks on the family" and how "the family is being destroyed"

The bitter irony of the "family is being destroyed" crowd destroying families by trying to ban gay marriage, scapegoating and persecuting trans people, deporting parts of perfectly happy families over minor paperwork errors or nothing...

I almost don't like to point out hypocrisy any more because to do so implies some set of shared vales and a capacity for caring that simply isn't there.

But I am very upset about all of these "attacks on the family" and how "the family is being destroyed"

@futurebird I’m 37 so I think I fall outside this. When I was coming up the hand wringing was all about hook up culture and how *much* casual sex we were having. But at this point most of my friends are married. One friend has gotten a divorce.

In my broader social environment I would say there’s relatively little divorce and when it happens it’s basically always: “I had kids with this man and then he got overwhelmed by what it takes to parent and turned into an additional child to take care of”

This is a question for the younger adults. Those in your 20s and 30s. There have been a few surveys and articles about how "young people are having less sex" and "young people aren't getting married"

And then some people will say there is a "loneliness epidemic"

How real is this? Are these things even connected?

There are fewer marriages but also far fewer divorces which, to me, kind of sounds like a good thing?

But I rarely hear about the low divorce rate in this context.

This is a question for the younger adults. Those in your 20s and 30s. There have been a few surveys and articles about how "young people are having less sex" and "young people aren't getting married"

And then some people will say there is a "loneliness epidemic"

How real is this? Are these things even connected?

There are fewer marriages but also far fewer divorces which, to me, kind of sounds like a good thing?

But I rarely hear about the low divorce rate in this context.

@futurebird answering your question. presumably you want like, what my experience has been? idk.

i just turned 21 on august 28th, and i still live with my parents in a suburban house. i have not had sex in like, several years. i did have sex with my ex-girlfriend. it was kind of complicated and it's good that we have moved on. we were close friends since we were children and are still friends now. (to other people who don't know yet, don't try to let a breakup not bother you. it'll just hurt slower and longer that way.)

she was like, the only friend that i would regularly see outside of school, but now we are busy with our separate things and i don't get to be around friends much. she is in college (a different college than me) now, and as far as i know she seems to be doing better mentally than ever! which is awesome, of course.

i feel lonely pretty frequently. i don't find it impossible to make friends but it is a bit hard to approach people in general. i met someone just recently even and i have a signal group chat with her boyfriend too. but a lot of the time i still don't have anyone there for me in the moment. it's especially bad when i need comfort (usually from negative thoughts/feelings from something bad happening) but have nobody to talk to because everyone is busy with sleeping or whatever.

i do have my immediate family, but like, i'm not telling them anything i'm gay (y'know?)

i also have a d*scord "server" that i like. the only one really. it does feel like a real community and is pleasant and fun, but people on the internet can't hug you and stuff. that's something i miss a lot. i feel so alone at night i want cuddles. plus i don't like making physical contact like that unless i'm very, very, very comfortable with the person. combine that with needing said physical contact and it's like. not very poggers.

and the people on there are often not awake or available at the same time as me. they live in many different time zones.

maybe i'm just weak and everyone deals with this though. idk.

@futurebird @catmisgivings

Amazing what "consent" accomplishes

@futurebird lack of affordable/appropriate 3rd spaces to meet new people with the primary aim of dating. Pubs and clubs are not appealing to me. Dating apps are largely terrible because they all prioritize user engagement (flipping through profiles and ads one at a time) instead of matching people. My life is currently work, work, work, come home and collapse on the bed. Weekends: chores and run errands.

In fact the "young people are having less sex" stat is normally reported alongside similar stats showing smoking tobacco and drinking are less popular.

I've only once seen it alongside the marriage stat... which is odd isn't it? At least if you were expecting reporting to reflect "traditional values."

I also suspect some young people aren't dating or getting married or even going on vacation or having a drink ... because they are BROKE and working their fingers to the bone to survive.

@futurebird
As far as I know its not just young people... People are having less sex than before at all ages. Why? Could be things like being broke etc and also could be things like hormonal effects from environmental pollution. People are higher percentage body fat than before... But not just people, also mammals of all species at least thats what i remember reading. So, like micro plastics or hormone mimics in food or whatever could plausibly play a role.

@futurebird
As far as I know its not just young people... People are having less sex than before at all ages. Why? Could be things like being broke etc and also could be things like hormonal effects from environmental pollution. People are higher percentage body fat than before... But not just people, also mammals of all species at least thats what i remember reading. So, like micro plastics or hormone mimics in food or whatever could plausibly play a role.

@futurebird
Also, theres way less violence than 30 years ago. One plausible mechanism thats an interesting theory is that people were exposed to a lot of lead through leaded gasoline. This caused impulsiveness and emotional dysregulation, leading to violence. But it might also have lead to more sex, more young marriages, more teen pregnancy, and more reasons for divorce. I dunno, but the lead-violence people should look at connections to other issues like this.

@futurebird
One way they study this is to look at different countries whose usage of leaded gasoline occurred on different timelines than the US and to see if theres a consistent relationship between lead exposure at time t and behavior at t + 20 or so years.

@GinevraCat

Divorce is sometimes the right thing to do. And a low divorce rate could be a bad thing if people were feeling financially, or emotionally "trapped" in bad marriages.

But the rates are way down, it's one many remarkable social shifts that doesn't get talked about very much.

In my social circle there are very few divorces, but there are also not as many marriages as I think my mom might have seen.

@futurebird @GinevraCat I wonder if people are in roommate situations instead of marriages?