This is a question for the younger adults.
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@futurebird I’m 37 so I think I fall outside this. When I was coming up the hand wringing was all about hook up culture and how *much* casual sex we were having. But at this point most of my friends are married. One friend has gotten a divorce.
In my broader social environment I would say there’s relatively little divorce and when it happens it’s basically always: “I had kids with this man and then he got overwhelmed by what it takes to parent and turned into an additional child to take care of”
“I had kids with this man and then he got overwhelmed by what it takes to parent and turned into an additional child to take care of”
Tale as old as time.
Being a parent is a lot.
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This is a question for the younger adults. Those in your 20s and 30s. There have been a few surveys and articles about how "young people are having less sex" and "young people aren't getting married"
And then some people will say there is a "loneliness epidemic"
How real is this? Are these things even connected?
There are fewer marriages but also far fewer divorces which, to me, kind of sounds like a good thing?
But I rarely hear about the low divorce rate in this context.
@futurebird answering your question. presumably you want like, what my experience has been? idk.
i just turned 21 on august 28th, and i still live with my parents in a suburban house. i have not had sex in like, several years. i did have sex with my ex-girlfriend. it was kind of complicated and it's good that we have moved on. we were close friends since we were children and are still friends now. (to other people who don't know yet, don't try to let a breakup not bother you. it'll just hurt slower and longer that way.)
she was like, the only friend that i would regularly see outside of school, but now we are busy with our separate things and i don't get to be around friends much. she is in college (a different college than me) now, and as far as i know she seems to be doing better mentally than ever! which is awesome, of course.
i feel lonely pretty frequently. i don't find it impossible to make friends but it is a bit hard to approach people in general. i met someone just recently even and i have a signal group chat with her boyfriend too. but a lot of the time i still don't have anyone there for me in the moment. it's especially bad when i need comfort (usually from negative thoughts/feelings from something bad happening) but have nobody to talk to because everyone is busy with sleeping or whatever.
i do have my immediate family, but like, i'm not telling them anything i'm gay (y'know?)
i also have a d*scord "server" that i like. the only one really. it does feel like a real community and is pleasant and fun, but people on the internet can't hug you and stuff. that's something i miss a lot. i feel so alone at night i want cuddles. plus i don't like making physical contact like that unless i'm very, very, very comfortable with the person. combine that with needing said physical contact and it's like. not very poggers.
and the people on there are often not awake or available at the same time as me. they live in many different time zones.
maybe i'm just weak and everyone deals with this though. idk.
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This is a question for the younger adults. Those in your 20s and 30s. There have been a few surveys and articles about how "young people are having less sex" and "young people aren't getting married"
And then some people will say there is a "loneliness epidemic"
How real is this? Are these things even connected?
There are fewer marriages but also far fewer divorces which, to me, kind of sounds like a good thing?
But I rarely hear about the low divorce rate in this context.
@futurebird lack of affordable/appropriate 3rd spaces to meet new people with the primary aim of dating. Pubs and clubs are not appealing to me. Dating apps are largely terrible because they all prioritize user engagement (flipping through profiles and ads one at a time) instead of matching people. My life is currently work, work, work, come home and collapse on the bed. Weekends: chores and run errands.
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@futurebird answering your question. presumably you want like, what my experience has been? idk.
i just turned 21 on august 28th, and i still live with my parents in a suburban house. i have not had sex in like, several years. i did have sex with my ex-girlfriend. it was kind of complicated and it's good that we have moved on. we were close friends since we were children and are still friends now. (to other people who don't know yet, don't try to let a breakup not bother you. it'll just hurt slower and longer that way.)
she was like, the only friend that i would regularly see outside of school, but now we are busy with our separate things and i don't get to be around friends much. she is in college (a different college than me) now, and as far as i know she seems to be doing better mentally than ever! which is awesome, of course.
i feel lonely pretty frequently. i don't find it impossible to make friends but it is a bit hard to approach people in general. i met someone just recently even and i have a signal group chat with her boyfriend too. but a lot of the time i still don't have anyone there for me in the moment. it's especially bad when i need comfort (usually from negative thoughts/feelings from something bad happening) but have nobody to talk to because everyone is busy with sleeping or whatever.
i do have my immediate family, but like, i'm not telling them anything i'm gay (y'know?)
i also have a d*scord "server" that i like. the only one really. it does feel like a real community and is pleasant and fun, but people on the internet can't hug you and stuff. that's something i miss a lot. i feel so alone at night i want cuddles. plus i don't like making physical contact like that unless i'm very, very, very comfortable with the person. combine that with needing said physical contact and it's like. not very poggers.
and the people on there are often not awake or available at the same time as me. they live in many different time zones.
maybe i'm just weak and everyone deals with this though. idk.
I don't think you sound weak at all. Having a whole aspect of your social self that you can't really talk about normally with your family is hard. And building meaningful connections with people you don't know takes time and is also hard.
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Amazing what "consent" accomplishes
It's disturbing how it can be a "dangerous" idea for some people.
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@futurebird lack of affordable/appropriate 3rd spaces to meet new people with the primary aim of dating. Pubs and clubs are not appealing to me. Dating apps are largely terrible because they all prioritize user engagement (flipping through profiles and ads one at a time) instead of matching people. My life is currently work, work, work, come home and collapse on the bed. Weekends: chores and run errands.
I have this very half-baked idea for some kind of absurdly woke not-for-profit matching making service.
It'd be called "Auntie"
You'd pour your heart out to a panel of certified aunties, they'd take some notes and give you the phone number of a nice lesbian or guy or gal or person. (or whatever is appropriate)
The prestige of the organization would be the success of the matches they make.
In most human cultures matchmaking is kind of important and not run by corporations.
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In fact the "young people are having less sex" stat is normally reported alongside similar stats showing smoking tobacco and drinking are less popular.
I've only once seen it alongside the marriage stat... which is odd isn't it? At least if you were expecting reporting to reflect "traditional values."
I also suspect some young people aren't dating or getting married or even going on vacation or having a drink ... because they are BROKE and working their fingers to the bone to survive.
@futurebird
As far as I know its not just young people... People are having less sex than before at all ages. Why? Could be things like being broke etc and also could be things like hormonal effects from environmental pollution. People are higher percentage body fat than before... But not just people, also mammals of all species at least thats what i remember reading. So, like micro plastics or hormone mimics in food or whatever could plausibly play a role. -
@futurebird
As far as I know its not just young people... People are having less sex than before at all ages. Why? Could be things like being broke etc and also could be things like hormonal effects from environmental pollution. People are higher percentage body fat than before... But not just people, also mammals of all species at least thats what i remember reading. So, like micro plastics or hormone mimics in food or whatever could plausibly play a role.Or it could be that people are lying less about having sex?
When I was younger I was kind of ashamed if I didn't have a "sex life" ... for guys this was way more intense and they all lied all the time about being players. It was very funny and obvious.
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@futurebird
As far as I know its not just young people... People are having less sex than before at all ages. Why? Could be things like being broke etc and also could be things like hormonal effects from environmental pollution. People are higher percentage body fat than before... But not just people, also mammals of all species at least thats what i remember reading. So, like micro plastics or hormone mimics in food or whatever could plausibly play a role.@futurebird
Also, theres way less violence than 30 years ago. One plausible mechanism thats an interesting theory is that people were exposed to a lot of lead through leaded gasoline. This caused impulsiveness and emotional dysregulation, leading to violence. But it might also have lead to more sex, more young marriages, more teen pregnancy, and more reasons for divorce. I dunno, but the lead-violence people should look at connections to other issues like this. -
@futurebird
Also, theres way less violence than 30 years ago. One plausible mechanism thats an interesting theory is that people were exposed to a lot of lead through leaded gasoline. This caused impulsiveness and emotional dysregulation, leading to violence. But it might also have lead to more sex, more young marriages, more teen pregnancy, and more reasons for divorce. I dunno, but the lead-violence people should look at connections to other issues like this.@futurebird
One way they study this is to look at different countries whose usage of leaded gasoline occurred on different timelines than the US and to see if theres a consistent relationship between lead exposure at time t and behavior at t + 20 or so years. -
@futurebird
One way they study this is to look at different countries whose usage of leaded gasoline occurred on different timelines than the US and to see if theres a consistent relationship between lead exposure at time t and behavior at t + 20 or so years.I'm so suspicious of this theory. It feels too much like a "just so" story and to me there are other more proximate reasons. I find the correlations interesting, they are just about good enough to be "possibly significant" but I still don't totally buy the causation aspect.
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Divorce is sometimes the right thing to do. And a low divorce rate could be a bad thing if people were feeling financially, or emotionally "trapped" in bad marriages.
But the rates are way down, it's one many remarkable social shifts that doesn't get talked about very much.
In my social circle there are very few divorces, but there are also not as many marriages as I think my mom might have seen.
@futurebird @GinevraCat I wonder if people are in roommate situations instead of marriages?
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@futurebird @GinevraCat I wonder if people are in roommate situations instead of marriages?
That brings it back to economics IMO.
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That brings it back to economics IMO.
@futurebird @thesquirrelfish @GinevraCat I find amongst younger people there seem to be fewer long term relationships and people wait until late 20s/early 30s to have children.
Also way fewer children for last 20 years, I was in the Maternity Ward building of the general hospital earlier this year (it has 9 floors and is one of the tallest in town so we put up an antenna and installed a new transmitter for the community radio station) and only 2-3 floors of it are now in regular use ..
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@futurebird @thesquirrelfish @GinevraCat I find amongst younger people there seem to be fewer long term relationships and people wait until late 20s/early 30s to have children.
Also way fewer children for last 20 years, I was in the Maternity Ward building of the general hospital earlier this year (it has 9 floors and is one of the tallest in town so we put up an antenna and installed a new transmitter for the community radio station) and only 2-3 floors of it are now in regular use ..
@vfrmedia @futurebird @thesquirrelfish @GinevraCat Wild statistic, but it kinda checks out around here as well. Maternity wards are smaller and according to friends of mine with kids, the level of care/service/time the parent + baby spends in the maternity ward has gone way down as well.
Almost no one I know has kids because childhood in the USA is so miserable (and dangerous) that it's hard to get excited about dooming someone else to it.
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I think the Republicans are mad that their kids avoid them.
All those years of beating their kids because they were supposed to fear their parents and now, they never call. According to Republicans this must be becaue of the woke mind virus, and not say kids aren't economically tied to their abusive parents any more.
@alienghic @futurebird not American but in my (abusive) father's family beating children with belt or stick was seen as normal punishment. I feared him most of my life. And yes, I am basically no contact with my father for almost 9 years. Most time I just pretend he doesn't exist (all my personality is composed of coping mechanisms realated to dissociating from reality).
Economic aspect was so engraved in my subconscious mind I had frequent dreams about screaming at my father "I am finally financially independent and now you couldn't blackmail me!" first several months in my first job. -
@vfrmedia @futurebird @thesquirrelfish @GinevraCat Wild statistic, but it kinda checks out around here as well. Maternity wards are smaller and according to friends of mine with kids, the level of care/service/time the parent + baby spends in the maternity ward has gone way down as well.
Almost no one I know has kids because childhood in the USA is so miserable (and dangerous) that it's hard to get excited about dooming someone else to it.
@sidereal @futurebird @thesquirrelfish @GinevraCat
I have hybrid working and drive to the office in the afternoon, there are noticeably fewer children around (even at school finishing times) and even during summer holidays I didn't notice that many in my street or the surrounding areas). A mutual from Germany said the same thing has happened in his area (and its likely common throughout Northern Europe)
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This is a question for the younger adults. Those in your 20s and 30s. There have been a few surveys and articles about how "young people are having less sex" and "young people aren't getting married"
And then some people will say there is a "loneliness epidemic"
How real is this? Are these things even connected?
There are fewer marriages but also far fewer divorces which, to me, kind of sounds like a good thing?
But I rarely hear about the low divorce rate in this context.
@futurebird I know three siblings in that age range, two of whom are in long term committed relationships, who have expressed a strict unwillingness to get married.
Why? Because their mom was awful and they saw what their dad had to get through in order to get away from her. Now they’re happy, the mom’s out of the picture, and the dad’s free. But it took decades.
I can see why kids witnessing people suffering broken marriages and messy divorces might sour on the idea of marriage.
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@sidereal @futurebird @thesquirrelfish @GinevraCat
I have hybrid working and drive to the office in the afternoon, there are noticeably fewer children around (even at school finishing times) and even during summer holidays I didn't notice that many in my street or the surrounding areas). A mutual from Germany said the same thing has happened in his area (and its likely common throughout Northern Europe)
Come to the Bronx we have kids up to our eyeballs.
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I wonder, if like crime, if you asked people if divorce is a big problem if people would still overestimate it?
The fall in the divorce rate presents a problem for conservatives who want to talk about how "the family is being destroyed" (which family? how?)
But I wonder if people still think that a large number of marriages are ending in divorce.
History sheds light.
No-fault divorce was made legal in most US states by the 70s. Awareness of family ills like abuse was also growing through this time. Likewise, severe social prohibitions against sex before marriage were also dissolving outside of conservative religion.
Hence a divorce epidemic in the 80s, as tons of boomers fled unhappy marriages, the kinds of marriages that their parents' generations were forced to remain in.
As that settled out, we also had the rise of therapy being available and destigmatized. And the availability of birth control got pretty good, along with destigmatizing single parenthood. So people could take their time to know themselves and their partner before sealing the deal. (I'm guessing you'll also see the age of first marriages going way up over this time.)
To the religious right, that's what really destroyed "the family," which was super young sexually repressed horny kids rushing into marriages for the sex or because of pregnancy, then stuck with each other forever because the state would not allow divorce unless they could prove adultry or very severe physical abuse. This type of family was much easier to control by authoritarian religions and workplaces. It stuck men to horrible jobs, and offered up easy victims for the predators of said systems.
And yes, religious and older folks have not updated these stats in their heads. All the social ills of the 80s have only gotten worse in their minds, because their influences have made no effort to correct it. Because those leaders want to go back to a time when a woman and children were their property, and no one pried into their business. This is also what "religious freedom" means to them.
