There is a really crazy paper where they did the "mirror dot" test for self recognition on ants.
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The other reason I'm skeptical is ants have very poor vision with a few notable exceptions. I don't know if ant would react to a mirror at all. I will try this with "the girls" later today and see what happens. Will post about this again.
@futurebird My guess: they're going to cover it with sand.
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F myrmepropagandist shared this topic
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@futurebird My guess: they're going to cover it with sand.
Covering new things you don't understand with sand is VERY sensible. Something we could learn from the ants IMO.
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Here is the paper. It was widely discussed ... on reddit for a long time I didn't think it was real.
Ants are painted with dots that match their exoskeletons, some are painted with blue dots. The ants are observed interacting with a mirror.
I've seen this experiment mentioned as a reason why calling the mirror dot test a "test for self awareness" is flawed: a lot of people really don't like this result.
Still, the journal gives me pause. What do you think?
https://www.journalofscience.net/showpdf/MjY4a2FsYWkxNDc4NTIzNjk=
@futurebird "The front
part of the head is thus an essential species specific character for leading to acceptance" which, if true, essentialy obviates the experiment because they're observing the mark and seeing it as an invader of some kind and not as proof of self-awareness. -
Here is the paper. It was widely discussed ... on reddit for a long time I didn't think it was real.
Ants are painted with dots that match their exoskeletons, some are painted with blue dots. The ants are observed interacting with a mirror.
I've seen this experiment mentioned as a reason why calling the mirror dot test a "test for self awareness" is flawed: a lot of people really don't like this result.
Still, the journal gives me pause. What do you think?
https://www.journalofscience.net/showpdf/MjY4a2FsYWkxNDc4NTIzNjk=
OK this has gone on long enough!
I'm breaking out the little ant-sized mirrors and the "bee safe paint!"
I have black and yellow and will try this on some of my black carpenter ants.
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@futurebird "The front
part of the head is thus an essential species specific character for leading to acceptance" which, if true, essentialy obviates the experiment because they're observing the mark and seeing it as an invader of some kind and not as proof of self-awareness.But they respond by cleaning themselves not attacking.
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OK this has gone on long enough!
I'm breaking out the little ant-sized mirrors and the "bee safe paint!"
I have black and yellow and will try this on some of my black carpenter ants.
@futurebird may I suggest a companion experiment?
You wrote that you’re not sure if ants would react to a mirror at all, given they generally don’t rely on sight that much.
Have you ever seen what happens when ants „meet“ through a piece of glass?
Two parallel glass tunnels or two areas completely separated by a sheet of glass so that they can‘t touch or smell each other but would be able to see?
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@futurebird may I suggest a companion experiment?
You wrote that you’re not sure if ants would react to a mirror at all, given they generally don’t rely on sight that much.
Have you ever seen what happens when ants „meet“ through a piece of glass?
Two parallel glass tunnels or two areas completely separated by a sheet of glass so that they can‘t touch or smell each other but would be able to see?
My ants travel in clear plastic tubes. Sometimes I've seen what happens when an ant who is from another colony is on the outside of the tube. They will track her visually.
However, ants are so sensitive to pheremones I think this experiment would be tricky to set up. Not impossible but consider how this ant found a pinhole in one of these tubes.
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My ants travel in clear plastic tubes. Sometimes I've seen what happens when an ant who is from another colony is on the outside of the tube. They will track her visually.
However, ants are so sensitive to pheremones I think this experiment would be tricky to set up. Not impossible but consider how this ant found a pinhole in one of these tubes.
She could sense the this colony from *across the room* Honed in on a tiny hole in the tubing (that’s what she’s worrying at, it’s a hole I use to add water. )
I think she wanted to fight them all.
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She could sense the this colony from *across the room* Honed in on a tiny hole in the tubing (that’s what she’s worrying at, it’s a hole I use to add water. )
I think she wanted to fight them all.
@futurebird @Landa this ant:
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@futurebird @Landa this ant:
@neckspike @Landa She was so belligerent!
This spring and summer I want to focus more of my observations on how wild colonies interact with each other. They can’t possibly be this belligerent all of the time.
I think the artificial environment may make it harder for colonies to find a truce— which they often do in the wild.
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@neckspike @Landa She was so belligerent!
This spring and summer I want to focus more of my observations on how wild colonies interact with each other. They can’t possibly be this belligerent all of the time.
I think the artificial environment may make it harder for colonies to find a truce— which they often do in the wild.
️In the antkeeping hobby many people have wanted to keep multiple colonies of ants in the same enclosure to see how they interact. The trouble is you need a *very* large enclosure for this to end in any way other than one colony wipin the other out.
Ants are very adept at assessing if they can completely eliminate another colony: in a controlled environment, usually one colony will have an advantage and that is the colony that will survive.
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In the antkeeping hobby many people have wanted to keep multiple colonies of ants in the same enclosure to see how they interact. The trouble is you need a *very* large enclosure for this to end in any way other than one colony wipin the other out.
Ants are very adept at assessing if they can completely eliminate another colony: in a controlled environment, usually one colony will have an advantage and that is the colony that will survive.
However, in the wild, there are more variables. Ant colony wars are less inevitable. In urban and suburban environments most of the conspicuous ant wars you see are between ants of the same species, often sister colonies founded at the same time. These ants are Tetramorium sp., the pavement ant, when these ants live under suburban sidewalks the summer nearly always ends in war.
