How much do you think it cost automakers to add seat-belts to their cars?
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I can understand the scared and confused antivaxer mom more easily than I can understand those in insurance, government who look at the modest (relatively speaking) cost of a vaccine, or clean water, or public toilets or seat-belts and quail because they think "What else will the rabble demand?"
After all, there are so many simple things we could do that could save many lives.
And so they muddy the waters, keep the "debate" rolling just to save a blood-soaked dollar.
@futurebird @SRLevine I'm bewildered by the economic argument some people make about all the money saved by not requiring insurers/government to pay several hundred dollars per person for vaccines.
Even if only a fraction of unvaccinated people later get sick, require medical care, and some of them drop out of the working economy, surely the cost of those people's care and lost productivity adds up to more than the cost of the vaccines for all.
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@futurebird @SRLevine I'm bewildered by the economic argument some people make about all the money saved by not requiring insurers/government to pay several hundred dollars per person for vaccines.
Even if only a fraction of unvaccinated people later get sick, require medical care, and some of them drop out of the working economy, surely the cost of those people's care and lost productivity adds up to more than the cost of the vaccines for all.
Look at the seat-belt example again and it'll make more sense. It's not just the cost, although that is part of it.
It's what it *represents* ... it represents an expectation that the government should have a role in preventing plagues. The for-profit world is unable to solve the problem. Do your own research, purify your own water, make your own seat-belt!
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@futurebird @SRLevine I'm bewildered by the economic argument some people make about all the money saved by not requiring insurers/government to pay several hundred dollars per person for vaccines.
Even if only a fraction of unvaccinated people later get sick, require medical care, and some of them drop out of the working economy, surely the cost of those people's care and lost productivity adds up to more than the cost of the vaccines for all.
@DanielMReck @futurebird It also doesn't make any sense from a monetary cost. The money for the vaccine production is all in the R&D, which is a sunk cost. The actual vaccine production costs on population scale are trivial. Yeah, if they were only producing a couple of thousand vials each vial would be very expensive, but they are typically producing 10s-100s of millions of doses. The drug companies are happy to charge insurance an arm and a leg since insurance will pay (and therefore we do by premiums or if we have to pay out of pocket as un/under insured), but they don't actually cost that to produce by a long shot.
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@DanielMReck @futurebird It also doesn't make any sense from a monetary cost. The money for the vaccine production is all in the R&D, which is a sunk cost. The actual vaccine production costs on population scale are trivial. Yeah, if they were only producing a couple of thousand vials each vial would be very expensive, but they are typically producing 10s-100s of millions of doses. The drug companies are happy to charge insurance an arm and a leg since insurance will pay (and therefore we do by premiums or if we have to pay out of pocket as un/under insured), but they don't actually cost that to produce by a long shot.
I used to think this. But, I think they might just be THAT miserly.
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@futurebird @SRLevine I'm bewildered by the economic argument some people make about all the money saved by not requiring insurers/government to pay several hundred dollars per person for vaccines.
Even if only a fraction of unvaccinated people later get sick, require medical care, and some of them drop out of the working economy, surely the cost of those people's care and lost productivity adds up to more than the cost of the vaccines for all.
@DanielMReck @futurebird @SRLevine That is their intention. They are not interested in building a strong economy. They can extract far more wealth (in the short term) out of looting a crashing economy. They either know that they are burning the world down with climate change or they believe in the End Days, so they don’t care about long-term. They just want to have enough money to live comfortably while the world burns. And, since communities of color are disproportionately impacted by infectious disease, the Republicans are willing to sacrifice some white people if it means reducing the relative population of BIPoC.
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@DanielMReck @futurebird @SRLevine That is their intention. They are not interested in building a strong economy. They can extract far more wealth (in the short term) out of looting a crashing economy. They either know that they are burning the world down with climate change or they believe in the End Days, so they don’t care about long-term. They just want to have enough money to live comfortably while the world burns. And, since communities of color are disproportionately impacted by infectious disease, the Republicans are willing to sacrifice some white people if it means reducing the relative population of BIPoC.
@RowanH @DanielMReck @SRLevine
...or they assume someone else will rebuild once they get out with their pile of loot. Because they've watched their peers do it and dammit it's MY turn to get my slice of the pie!
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Look at the seat-belt example again and it'll make more sense. It's not just the cost, although that is part of it.
It's what it *represents* ... it represents an expectation that the government should have a role in preventing plagues. The for-profit world is unable to solve the problem. Do your own research, purify your own water, make your own seat-belt!
@futurebird @DanielMReck @SRLevine I don’t think the seatbelt analogy holds up. Yes, your argument that seatbelts represented exposure for potential liability of other preventable harms due to inherent dangerousness of the product is valid. But that’s not the case with vaccines. The long testing and r & d phase is specifically designed to find possible harm prior to authorization. While COVID vaccines were emergency auth., massive data about safety exists.
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@futurebird @DanielMReck @SRLevine I don’t think the seatbelt analogy holds up. Yes, your argument that seatbelts represented exposure for potential liability of other preventable harms due to inherent dangerousness of the product is valid. But that’s not the case with vaccines. The long testing and r & d phase is specifically designed to find possible harm prior to authorization. While COVID vaccines were emergency auth., massive data about safety exists.
@IcooIey @DanielMReck @SRLevine
I think my point about seat-belts must not have been clear. When I say " To the auto industry seat belts represented public responsibility for the overall safety of their product." The product I'm talking about is the car.
I'm talking about the public expecting cars to be safe and holding the manufactures responsible in part for the harm that cars do.
This would lead to the public expecting even more safety features.
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@IcooIey @DanielMReck @SRLevine
I think my point about seat-belts must not have been clear. When I say " To the auto industry seat belts represented public responsibility for the overall safety of their product." The product I'm talking about is the car.
I'm talking about the public expecting cars to be safe and holding the manufactures responsible in part for the harm that cars do.
This would lead to the public expecting even more safety features.
@IcooIey @DanielMReck @SRLevine
When the seat belt "debate" was still going on one annoying argument was that seat belts could in some edge cases cause harm. And I think this is very similar to talk about the edge cases with vaccines.
And part of what making this kind of muddying of the waters is effective is the drops of truth. The initial designs for seat-belts had flaws. They were still better than not having them and if they were mandated sooner more people would be alive. Period.
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I can understand the scared and confused antivaxer mom more easily than I can understand those in insurance, government who look at the modest (relatively speaking) cost of a vaccine, or clean water, or public toilets or seat-belts and quail because they think "What else will the rabble demand?"
After all, there are so many simple things we could do that could save many lives.
And so they muddy the waters, keep the "debate" rolling just to save a blood-soaked dollar.
@futurebird @SRLevine Unless they can guarantee a quick death to the folks they deny it to, preventive care SAVES MONEY for the insurance companies. This isn't about money. It's much darker.
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@futurebird @SRLevine Unless they can guarantee a quick death to the folks they deny it to, preventive care SAVES MONEY for the insurance companies. This isn't about money. It's much darker.
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@futurebird @SRLevine Unless they can guarantee a quick death to the folks they deny it to, preventive care SAVES MONEY for the insurance companies. This isn't about money. It's much darker.
