The nice thing that happened in class today:
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This student wants to "invent a new zero" so. Watch out everyone. Math is about to get a lot more... IDK ... but MORE.
@futurebird
[sighs in iEEE 754 signed zero] -
@futurebird admittedly I'm not the best at math and I do have an anthropology degree (MesoAmerica was one of the places that independently invented Zero but I'm sure you already knew that)
But I can't FATHOM counting or math without zero.
There must be a way to make sense of it, but I haven't come to that answer
@lapis @futurebird If you’re counting physical things, then I believe you don’t need a zero. -
This student wants to "invent a new zero" so. Watch out everyone. Math is about to get a lot more... IDK ... but MORE.
@futurebird …or perhaps less
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This student wants to "invent a new zero" so. Watch out everyone. Math is about to get a lot more... IDK ... but MORE.
@futurebird we have so many zeroes tho
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This student wants to "invent a new zero" so. Watch out everyone. Math is about to get a lot more... IDK ... but MORE.
@futurebird this story has saved my day from being bleh.
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This student wants to "invent a new zero" so. Watch out everyone. Math is about to get a lot more... IDK ... but MORE.
@futurebird
I've been in the late-capitalist dystopia long enough that "new zero" sounds like "now you need an app and a subscription to do math". -
This student wants to "invent a new zero" so. Watch out everyone. Math is about to get a lot more... IDK ... but MORE.
last time this happened we got Javascript and the infamous "WAT" talk lol
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This student wants to "invent a new zero" so. Watch out everyone. Math is about to get a lot more... IDK ... but MORE.
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@futurebird we have so many zeroes tho
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@mhoye @futurebird IEE754 has positive and negative zero.
@kbm0 @futurebird the kid is on to a fundamental truth of math, that you can always ask questions with the tools you have that seem to make no sense until we decide, what would have to go in that slot so they did make sense? So we get zero, then negative numbers, then fractions, soon irrationals, and and and and
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last time this happened we got Javascript and the infamous "WAT" talk lol
Watman
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This student wants to "invent a new zero" so. Watch out everyone. Math is about to get a lot more... IDK ... but MORE.
Hee-hee, topologist have already got "the line with two origins", but we gotta let this student run free and see what they come up with on their own.
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@futurebird for a while there, no joke, computing was flirting with upper and lowercase zeroes…
@mhoye @futurebird Typography has uppercase and lowercase zeroes, but they are usually called lining and old style figures
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@futurebird admittedly I'm not the best at math and I do have an anthropology degree (MesoAmerica was one of the places that independently invented Zero but I'm sure you already knew that)
But I can't FATHOM counting or math without zero.
There must be a way to make sense of it, but I haven't come to that answer
@lapis @futurebird The concept of "nothing" was known. What people didn't have was place-value number representation.
So there was no easy way to multiply by, say, 10 (assuming your base was 10).
Compare arithmetic with roman numerals versus arithmetic with indo-arabic numerals.
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The nice thing that happened in class today:
Grade 5 students solve a puzzle where they put cuneiform numbers in order (there is no guidance, just work with the symbols, how do you order them?)
I told them they are like archeologists cracking a code. They did it!
"But where is zero?"
"It wasn't invented yet." I said this seriously. I mean ... it's true.Later that day the same student asked if it was a joke. I got to tell them no! Zero had to be invented. Everything had to be invented!
@futurebird And of all the numbers, zero had to be invented the most!
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Maybe ϵ would be another "zero at home"
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The nice thing that happened in class today:
Grade 5 students solve a puzzle where they put cuneiform numbers in order (there is no guidance, just work with the symbols, how do you order them?)
I told them they are like archeologists cracking a code. They did it!
"But where is zero?"
"It wasn't invented yet." I said this seriously. I mean ... it's true.Later that day the same student asked if it was a joke. I got to tell them no! Zero had to be invented. Everything had to be invented!
@futurebird that's awesome. I don't share my work very often, but especially because you mention cuneiform, I actually have "invented" a new zero, called zo, in a modern base-60 number system, inspired by the Babylonian system and Wu Xing
hyxos_numerals/GRAMMAR.md at main · hyxos/hyxos_numerals
A rust library for working with the Hyxos Numerals - hyxos_numerals/GRAMMAR.md at main · hyxos/hyxos_numerals
GitHub (github.com)
There is a very poorly written and not maintained api to generate the glyphs at https://hyxos.io/docs
I'm plodding away in my spare time trying to turn it into something more usable to make it more accessible for everyone... up to this point it's mostly been used by my wife and I to build card game prototypes.
I'm hoping to release a much more polished glyph builder this year, I really want to make a typeface, and oh boy, that is a deep, deep rabbithole
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The nice thing that happened in class today:
Grade 5 students solve a puzzle where they put cuneiform numbers in order (there is no guidance, just work with the symbols, how do you order them?)
I told them they are like archeologists cracking a code. They did it!
"But where is zero?"
"It wasn't invented yet." I said this seriously. I mean ... it's true.Later that day the same student asked if it was a joke. I got to tell them no! Zero had to be invented. Everything had to be invented!
@futurebird in all seriousness that’s awesome. They were engaged and interacting.
Most importantly made an awesome joke lol
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The nice thing that happened in class today:
Grade 5 students solve a puzzle where they put cuneiform numbers in order (there is no guidance, just work with the symbols, how do you order them?)
I told them they are like archeologists cracking a code. They did it!
"But where is zero?"
"It wasn't invented yet." I said this seriously. I mean ... it's true.Later that day the same student asked if it was a joke. I got to tell them no! Zero had to be invented. Everything had to be invented!
@futurebird they say the Roman Empire fell for lack of any way to indicate successful exit of their programs
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@lapis @futurebird If you’re counting physical things, then I believe you don’t need a zero.
Zero makes record keeping nicer and when you start using place value (as cuneiform does) to get more out of your limited symbol set ... zero make things less ambiguous.
One needs a way to show which place the symbol lives in even if you don't have everything written in neat columns.
