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Chebucto Regional Softball Club

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  3. tandy put their sound chip on the 1A interrupt?
A forum for discussing and organizing recreational softball and baseball games and leagues in the greater Halifax area.

tandy put their sound chip on the 1A interrupt?

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  • Foone🏳️‍⚧️F Foone🏳️‍⚧️

    okay I finally found a boxed copy of the Enhanced 1990 DOS edition. (confusingly labeled the 1993 edition)

    It comes on two 5.25" disks: presumably double-density, so that's 720kb in total.

    Floppy Disk Pop Quiz: What's weird about these floppies, specifically given that this is MS-DOS version?

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    Foone🏳️‍⚧️
    wrote on last edited by
    #176

    I happened to look at mobygames, and noticed two interesting things.

    First, the Mac version is very similar to the DOS version, other than the expected changes you'd get from it being on a monochrome system with a GUI.

    But wow, that's a completely different font! Is that built into macs or something? (EDIT: @amr confirms it is)

    (also, the dialogue box is top-aligned. DOS bottom-aligns them)

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    Foone🏳️‍⚧️F 1 Reply Last reply
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    • Foone🏳️‍⚧️F Foone🏳️‍⚧️

      I happened to look at mobygames, and noticed two interesting things.

      First, the Mac version is very similar to the DOS version, other than the expected changes you'd get from it being on a monochrome system with a GUI.

      But wow, that's a completely different font! Is that built into macs or something? (EDIT: @amr confirms it is)

      (also, the dialogue box is top-aligned. DOS bottom-aligns them)

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      Foone🏳️‍⚧️F This user is from outside of this forum
      Foone🏳️‍⚧️F This user is from outside of this forum
      Foone🏳️‍⚧️
      wrote on last edited by
      #177

      Secondly, the TurboGrafx-16 version didn't even THINK about using the same GUI!

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      Foone🏳️‍⚧️F 1 Reply Last reply
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      • Foone🏳️‍⚧️F Foone🏳️‍⚧️

        Secondly, the TurboGrafx-16 version didn't even THINK about using the same GUI!

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        Foone🏳️‍⚧️
        wrote on last edited by
        #178

        I don't want to go through a million platforms but all the other ports of this game tweaked some art here and there or put in different location-photos, but all of them have the same basic tall-window-on-the-left, smaller-window-in-the-top-right, four-buttons-in-lower-right design

        Foone🏳️‍⚧️F 1 Reply Last reply
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        • Foone🏳️‍⚧️F Foone🏳️‍⚧️

          I don't want to go through a million platforms but all the other ports of this game tweaked some art here and there or put in different location-photos, but all of them have the same basic tall-window-on-the-left, smaller-window-in-the-top-right, four-buttons-in-lower-right design

          Foone🏳️‍⚧️F This user is from outside of this forum
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          Foone🏳️‍⚧️
          wrote on last edited by
          #179

          The answer for "what's wrong with these floppies?" is that they're double-notched. That's needed for double-sided disks... on systems which have single-sided drives!
          The PC has basically always been double-sided, so they only need one notch, on the top/a side.

          Foone🏳️‍⚧️F 1 Reply Last reply
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          • Foone🏳️‍⚧️F Foone🏳️‍⚧️

            The answer for "what's wrong with these floppies?" is that they're double-notched. That's needed for double-sided disks... on systems which have single-sided drives!
            The PC has basically always been double-sided, so they only need one notch, on the top/a side.

            Foone🏳️‍⚧️F This user is from outside of this forum
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            Foone🏳️‍⚧️
            wrote on last edited by
            #180

            here's why they shipped it on a double-notched disk anyway:
            Broderbund was releasing games on a bunch of other systems that DID have single-sided drives. For simplicity they just bought Xty-thousand double-notched disks

            Foone🏳️‍⚧️F 1 Reply Last reply
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            • Foone🏳️‍⚧️F Foone🏳️‍⚧️

              here's why they shipped it on a double-notched disk anyway:
              Broderbund was releasing games on a bunch of other systems that DID have single-sided drives. For simplicity they just bought Xty-thousand double-notched disks

              Foone🏳️‍⚧️F This user is from outside of this forum
              Foone🏳️‍⚧️F This user is from outside of this forum
              Foone🏳️‍⚧️
              wrote on last edited by
              #181

              is it gonna matter? not in the slightest (assuming there's no format-mismatching, which their shouldn't be: these are all the same density of disks, I think).

              The PC doesn't check for a notch there, so it won't notice either.

              Foone🏳️‍⚧️F 1 Reply Last reply
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              • Foone🏳️‍⚧️F Foone🏳️‍⚧️

                is it gonna matter? not in the slightest (assuming there's no format-mismatching, which their shouldn't be: these are all the same density of disks, I think).

                The PC doesn't check for a notch there, so it won't notice either.

                Foone🏳️‍⚧️F This user is from outside of this forum
                Foone🏳️‍⚧️F This user is from outside of this forum
                Foone🏳️‍⚧️
                wrote on last edited by
                #182

                It's just funny because this is, like, technically wrong?. These aren't PC disks, but the difference doesn't matter, so why not?

                It probably saved them a decent amount of money because of bulk discounts and inventory simplicity.

                Foone🏳️‍⚧️F 1 Reply Last reply
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                • Foone🏳️‍⚧️F Foone🏳️‍⚧️

                  It's just funny because this is, like, technically wrong?. These aren't PC disks, but the difference doesn't matter, so why not?

                  It probably saved them a decent amount of money because of bulk discounts and inventory simplicity.

                  Foone🏳️‍⚧️F This user is from outside of this forum
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                  Foone🏳️‍⚧️
                  wrote on last edited by
                  #183

                  also after all this wondering about "how many disks does Carmen Sandiego Enhanced (1990, DOS) come on?" is even sillier because I ALREADY KNEW THE ANSWER, I JUST FORGOT I KNEW IT

                  Foone🏳️‍⚧️F 1 Reply Last reply
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                  • Foone🏳️‍⚧️F Foone🏳️‍⚧️

                    also after all this wondering about "how many disks does Carmen Sandiego Enhanced (1990, DOS) come on?" is even sillier because I ALREADY KNEW THE ANSWER, I JUST FORGOT I KNEW IT

                    Foone🏳️‍⚧️F This user is from outside of this forum
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                    Foone🏳️‍⚧️
                    wrote on last edited by
                    #184

                    I am currently, as in this very thread, reverse engineering Carmen Sandiego Enhanced (1990, DOS)!

                    I've seen the code that asks for you to put in the other disk! And it only asks for DISK1 and DISK2!

                    Foone🏳️‍⚧️F 1 Reply Last reply
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                    • Foone🏳️‍⚧️F Foone🏳️‍⚧️

                      I am currently, as in this very thread, reverse engineering Carmen Sandiego Enhanced (1990, DOS)!

                      I've seen the code that asks for you to put in the other disk! And it only asks for DISK1 and DISK2!

                      Foone🏳️‍⚧️F This user is from outside of this forum
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                      Foone🏳️‍⚧️
                      wrote on last edited by
                      #185

                      just looking at the files, not the code (and not having seen original disk images yet that I can recall), I bet the answer is that they put CITIES.DAT on DISK2.
                      the whole game - cities.dat is ~300kb, with cities.dat being 168kb.

                      They could do the whole game - carmen.dat and cities.dat in only 200kb, which'd give them 160kb (luxury!) for a fancy installer.

                      Foone🏳️‍⚧️F 1 Reply Last reply
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                      • Foone🏳️‍⚧️F Foone🏳️‍⚧️

                        just looking at the files, not the code (and not having seen original disk images yet that I can recall), I bet the answer is that they put CITIES.DAT on DISK2.
                        the whole game - cities.dat is ~300kb, with cities.dat being 168kb.

                        They could do the whole game - carmen.dat and cities.dat in only 200kb, which'd give them 160kb (luxury!) for a fancy installer.

                        Foone🏳️‍⚧️F This user is from outside of this forum
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                        Foone🏳️‍⚧️
                        wrote on last edited by
                        #186

                        This game autodetects everything (video and audio modes) and you can install it by just doing "copy A:*.* C:\CARMEN" on each disk, so I don't think they would have needed a fancy installer.

                        Foone🏳️‍⚧️F 1 Reply Last reply
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                        • Foone🏳️‍⚧️F Foone🏳️‍⚧️

                          This game autodetects everything (video and audio modes) and you can install it by just doing "copy A:*.* C:\CARMEN" on each disk, so I don't think they would have needed a fancy installer.

                          Foone🏳️‍⚧️F This user is from outside of this forum
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                          Foone🏳️‍⚧️
                          wrote on last edited by
                          #187

                          I should just check. I'm sure disk images can be tracked down in places.

                          the video and audio detection seems to be excellent, by the way. it just silently figures it out, without asking questions or requiring special arguments or configuration.
                          Perfect for a game aimed at the little childrens.

                          Foone🏳️‍⚧️F 1 Reply Last reply
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                          • Foone🏳️‍⚧️F Foone🏳️‍⚧️

                            I should just check. I'm sure disk images can be tracked down in places.

                            the video and audio detection seems to be excellent, by the way. it just silently figures it out, without asking questions or requiring special arguments or configuration.
                            Perfect for a game aimed at the little childrens.

                            Foone🏳️‍⚧️F This user is from outside of this forum
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                            Foone🏳️‍⚧️
                            wrote on last edited by
                            #188

                            I found two different copies of the disk images, in different places.

                            both are imaged off a 3.5" disk version, which of course comes on only one (double density, 720kb) disk!

                            Foone🏳️‍⚧️F 1 Reply Last reply
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                            • Foone🏳️‍⚧️F Foone🏳️‍⚧️

                              I found two different copies of the disk images, in different places.

                              both are imaged off a 3.5" disk version, which of course comes on only one (double density, 720kb) disk!

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                              Foone🏳️‍⚧️
                              wrote on last edited by
                              #189

                              That version has no installer. Just the usual files (and a "DESKTOPD.CFG" file that I don't understand)

                              Foone🏳️‍⚧️F 1 Reply Last reply
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                              • Foone🏳️‍⚧️F Foone🏳️‍⚧️

                                That version has no installer. Just the usual files (and a "DESKTOPD.CFG" file that I don't understand)

                                Foone🏳️‍⚧️F This user is from outside of this forum
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                                Foone🏳️‍⚧️
                                wrote on last edited by
                                #190

                                I did not realize they implemented a file browser in this program! I only found it by hiding all the DAT files from the EXE, to see if it'd ask me to put in floppies in.

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                                • Foone🏳️‍⚧️F Foone🏳️‍⚧️

                                  I did not realize they implemented a file browser in this program! I only found it by hiding all the DAT files from the EXE, to see if it'd ask me to put in floppies in.

                                  Link Preview Image
                                  Foone🏳️‍⚧️F This user is from outside of this forum
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                                  Foone🏳️‍⚧️
                                  wrote on last edited by
                                  #191

                                  So I've got code at 17DA:08AA, which is E8 5D F7. DOSBox decodes that as CALL 000A.

                                  Manually decoding it myself, it should be a relative jump, and it's a jump to $-0x8a3. following the jump it ends up at 17DA:000A.

                                  BUT GHIDRA thinks this code is at 1fb7:08aa, and it decodes it as call SUB_2000_fb7a, which doesn't exist.

                                  I'm not sure how (0x08aa+3)-0x8a3 = 2000:fb7a. Something weird is going on. Why is the number BIGGER?

                                  Foone🏳️‍⚧️F 1 Reply Last reply
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                                  • Foone🏳️‍⚧️F Foone🏳️‍⚧️

                                    So I've got code at 17DA:08AA, which is E8 5D F7. DOSBox decodes that as CALL 000A.

                                    Manually decoding it myself, it should be a relative jump, and it's a jump to $-0x8a3. following the jump it ends up at 17DA:000A.

                                    BUT GHIDRA thinks this code is at 1fb7:08aa, and it decodes it as call SUB_2000_fb7a, which doesn't exist.

                                    I'm not sure how (0x08aa+3)-0x8a3 = 2000:fb7a. Something weird is going on. Why is the number BIGGER?

                                    Foone🏳️‍⚧️F This user is from outside of this forum
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                                    Foone🏳️‍⚧️
                                    wrote on last edited by
                                    #192

                                    the +3 is because E8 5D F7 is 3 bytes, and it goes off the address of the next instruction

                                    Foone🏳️‍⚧️F 1 Reply Last reply
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                                    • Foone🏳️‍⚧️F Foone🏳️‍⚧️

                                      the +3 is because E8 5D F7 is 3 bytes, and it goes off the address of the next instruction

                                      Foone🏳️‍⚧️F This user is from outside of this forum
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                                      Foone🏳️‍⚧️
                                      wrote on last edited by
                                      #193

                                      Ghidra even recognizes there's a function at 1fb7:000A! It's called VideoDetect

                                      Foone🏳️‍⚧️F 1 Reply Last reply
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                                      • Foone🏳️‍⚧️F Foone🏳️‍⚧️

                                        Ghidra even recognizes there's a function at 1fb7:000A! It's called VideoDetect

                                        Foone🏳️‍⚧️F This user is from outside of this forum
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                                        Foone🏳️‍⚧️
                                        wrote on last edited by
                                        #194

                                        eww. They're using the NEAR version of CALL to call a FAR procedure.

                                        You might say "wait, won't that break when it tries to do RETF?" and yes, it would, unless they manually do PUSH CS before they call it!

                                        Foone🏳️‍⚧️F 1 Reply Last reply
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                                        • Foone🏳️‍⚧️F Foone🏳️‍⚧️

                                          eww. They're using the NEAR version of CALL to call a FAR procedure.

                                          You might say "wait, won't that break when it tries to do RETF?" and yes, it would, unless they manually do PUSH CS before they call it!

                                          Foone🏳️‍⚧️F This user is from outside of this forum
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                                          Foone🏳️‍⚧️
                                          wrote on last edited by
                                          #195

                                          I think this saves one byte?
                                          a call FAR absolute would be 5 bytes for the call, whereas push CS + call NEAR is 3+1 bytes

                                          Foone🏳️‍⚧️F 1 Reply Last reply
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