In other words they are still trying to reduce "meaningful human contact hours" to make it as objective as possible.

But the "tell" that this isn't a serious proposal? The best schools where the children of the wealthy get their education won't even consider this for a second. We'd stop using paper to save money first, we'd do anything else.

This is only be floated for "other people's kids"

Young people need the time and attention of adults to grow up and learn. Controversial I know.

@futurebird
I never had a study hall period all through K12—I honestly never understood the point of it? (But that’s maybe because in my schools it seemed to be viewed as a dumping ground for low-performing students who needed to be kept on campus.)

@tkinias

There is a notion that "students aren't learning anything in study hall so it's not important"

I think for middle school students this is a big mistake. Study hall is the start of learning to manage your own time. Do you get your homework done? It's also learning to be considerate of others.

Some of the other teachers think I'm a little crazy for wanting to discuss it so much, but I think we could improve it a lot.

@futurebird

My experience is that students don't really learn anything in any class.

@futurebird
yeah, I think that’s a good size for most classes at any level (except seminars at upper-undergrad or graduate level)—but 150 still seems like a lot to get to know well

I’d target it at more like 50 to be optimal tbh

@tkinias @futurebird I think that's important: it *can* be a place where they learn to rebel against being "dumped" and babysat.

In other words they are still trying to reduce "meaningful human contact hours" to make it as objective as possible.

But the "tell" that this isn't a serious proposal? The best schools where the children of the wealthy get their education won't even consider this for a second. We'd stop using paper to save money first, we'd do anything else.

This is only be floated for "other people's kids"

Young people need the time and attention of adults to grow up and learn. Controversial I know.

@geonz
I attended study hall once in high school, on the first day of classes (because of a scheduling screw-up). It was eye-opening: the teacher was a coach of some kind who was very openly power-tripping (“if you cross me by *God* I will make your life hell” kind of vibe).
@futurebird

@futurebird EXACTLY. This is for the plebs. This is for the masses who, in the minds of those promoting this crap, exist only to serve the rich.

@tkinias @geonz

How many kids were in there? My old school used to do "doubles" on study hall because "it's easier"

No.

Oh no no no.

45 9th graders? I can't even say hello to all of them in the time allotted. So you end up having "Serious Rules" because otherwise it's just going to be 30min of chaos that no one needs in their life.

@futurebird
oh, I don’t recall exactly (this was in the 1980s lol) but it was way larger than a normal class size—so I’d say at least 60, probably more
@geonz

@futurebird kids also benefit from having role models. In the case of teachers, the simplest part of being a role model is demonstrating interest in the topic being taught, showing that it has value to real adults and isn't just something forced on kids by 'the system'

@adamr

I have a Masters (in astrophysics), have been tangentially involved in academia throughout a working life, and I am here to tell kids that what they are being taught has no value to adults other than to keep them in line and is forced on them by the system.

@futurebird

@tkinias

There is a notion that "students aren't learning anything in study hall so it's not important"

I think for middle school students this is a big mistake. Study hall is the start of learning to manage your own time. Do you get your homework done? It's also learning to be considerate of others.

Some of the other teachers think I'm a little crazy for wanting to discuss it so much, but I think we could improve it a lot.

@futurebird @tkinias

Study hall can also be a place and time for kids who feel overwhelmed at school (or home!) to chill out.

@richpuchalsky @adamr

Do you think compulsory education should be abolished?

@futurebird

i think that there should be a social expectation that young people should learn, and that adults should not be able to prevent children from learning. But as an anarchist of course I think that the state should end, as well as a state mandated system of education.

@adamr

@richpuchalsky @adamr

I think powerful people will use that to take advantage of people by keeping their understanding of the world limited and in the absence of state education it will be the church and whoever gives the church the most money indoctrinating everyone.

@futurebird increasing students per teacher based off either of these is full on insane though. Education has a quality problem because of low teacher numbers to begin with

A teacher needs to know their students to be effective. This puts an upper limit on the number of students one teacher can teach at once. Something like 150 students. I need to know their names, and when I see that name a little about who that is.

Further, a student should have at least 4 or 5 teachers who know them. This is a selection of hopefully trustworthy and supportive adults they can turn to.

Most plans to make school less expensive mess with these numbers.