A teacher needs to know their students to be effective.
-
@futurebird
yeah, I think that’s a good size for most classes at any level (except seminars at upper-undergrad or graduate level)—but 150 still seems like a lot to get to know wellI’d target it at more like 50 to be optimal tbh
30-50 is the number out of the 150 who are "my" students, the ones who'd come to me first for whatever reason.
They are all nerds. I'm a nerd magnet.
-
@tkinias @futurebird I think that's important: it *can* be a place where they learn to rebel against being "dumped" and babysat.
@geonz
I attended study hall once in high school, on the first day of classes (because of a scheduling screw-up). It was eye-opening: the teacher was a coach of some kind who was very openly power-tripping (“if you cross me by *God* I will make your life hell” kind of vibe).
@futurebird -
In other words they are still trying to reduce "meaningful human contact hours" to make it as objective as possible.
But the "tell" that this isn't a serious proposal? The best schools where the children of the wealthy get their education won't even consider this for a second. We'd stop using paper to save money first, we'd do anything else.
This is only be floated for "other people's kids"
Young people need the time and attention of adults to grow up and learn. Controversial I know.
@futurebird EXACTLY. This is for the plebs. This is for the masses who, in the minds of those promoting this crap, exist only to serve the rich.
-
@geonz
I attended study hall once in high school, on the first day of classes (because of a scheduling screw-up). It was eye-opening: the teacher was a coach of some kind who was very openly power-tripping (“if you cross me by *God* I will make your life hell” kind of vibe).
@futurebirdHow many kids were in there? My old school used to do "doubles" on study hall because "it's easier"
No.
Oh no no no.
45 9th graders? I can't even say hello to all of them in the time allotted. So you end up having "Serious Rules" because otherwise it's just going to be 30min of chaos that no one needs in their life.
-
@futurebird EXACTLY. This is for the plebs. This is for the masses who, in the minds of those promoting this crap, exist only to serve the rich.
"Your kid doesn't need to go to college or learn about silly things like art and history. That might make them GAY. Isn't it better if they get training on how to work in an amazon warehouse instead?"
"Well what is YOUR kid doing?"
"Uh... studying art history and reading poetry ... but never mind that. We will give your child work experience so they can get a job!"
-
How many kids were in there? My old school used to do "doubles" on study hall because "it's easier"
No.
Oh no no no.
45 9th graders? I can't even say hello to all of them in the time allotted. So you end up having "Serious Rules" because otherwise it's just going to be 30min of chaos that no one needs in their life.
@futurebird
oh, I don’t recall exactly (this was in the 1980s lol) but it was way larger than a normal class size—so I’d say at least 60, probably more
@geonz -
@futurebird
oh, I don’t recall exactly (this was in the 1980s lol) but it was way larger than a normal class size—so I’d say at least 60, probably more
@geonz -
@futurebird kids also benefit from having role models. In the case of teachers, the simplest part of being a role model is demonstrating interest in the topic being taught, showing that it has value to real adults and isn't just something forced on kids by 'the system'
I have a Masters (in astrophysics), have been tangentially involved in academia throughout a working life, and I am here to tell kids that what they are being taught has no value to adults other than to keep them in line and is forced on them by the system.
-
I have a Masters (in astrophysics), have been tangentially involved in academia throughout a working life, and I am here to tell kids that what they are being taught has no value to adults other than to keep them in line and is forced on them by the system.
Do you think compulsory education should be abolished?
-
There is a notion that "students aren't learning anything in study hall so it's not important"
I think for middle school students this is a big mistake. Study hall is the start of learning to manage your own time. Do you get your homework done? It's also learning to be considerate of others.
Some of the other teachers think I'm a little crazy for wanting to discuss it so much, but I think we could improve it a lot.
Study hall can also be a place and time for kids who feel overwhelmed at school (or home!) to chill out.
-
Study hall can also be a place and time for kids who feel overwhelmed at school (or home!) to chill out.
Our upper school students don't have study halls. They do have "free periods" where they must remain on campus ... but that's about it. We can only do this because most of them have learned to manage that time sensibly. Every year someone wants to pack more things in the schedule and I always push back because that free time helps so many of them.
The middle school students have study hall since they don't know how to use a free period yet. Poor things.
-
Do you think compulsory education should be abolished?
i think that there should be a social expectation that young people should learn, and that adults should not be able to prevent children from learning. But as an anarchist of course I think that the state should end, as well as a state mandated system of education.
-
i think that there should be a social expectation that young people should learn, and that adults should not be able to prevent children from learning. But as an anarchist of course I think that the state should end, as well as a state mandated system of education.
I think powerful people will use that to take advantage of people by keeping their understanding of the world limited and in the absence of state education it will be the church and whoever gives the church the most money indoctrinating everyone.
-
I think powerful people will use that to take advantage of people by keeping their understanding of the world limited and in the absence of state education it will be the church and whoever gives the church the most money indoctrinating everyone.
Quite possible! (Anarchists are not really big on the church either.) But communities can build schools and staff them without a church organization, or young people can learn through one-on-one teaching from adults.
When looking at bad possible alternatives we have to compare them with what actually exists, not the ideal of what is supposed to exist.
-
@futurebird increasing students per teacher based off either of these is full on insane though. Education has a quality problem because of low teacher numbers to begin with
Improving education begins with
- more teachers
and
- better pay....
Everything else is a lame excuse.
And most of "everything else" is generally a distraction from the main problems.
-
A teacher needs to know their students to be effective. This puts an upper limit on the number of students one teacher can teach at once. Something like 150 students. I need to know their names, and when I see that name a little about who that is.
Further, a student should have at least 4 or 5 teachers who know them. This is a selection of hopefully trustworthy and supportive adults they can turn to.
Most plans to make school less expensive mess with these numbers.
@futurebird Also, based on my (admittedly 10+ years old) experiences as a student at schools who kept trying to use technology this way?
The technology ultimately costs more than literally just hiring additional teaching staff (or hiring more admin staff so teachers aren't pulling double duty, or fixing school buildings, or literally any of the things that are actually needed).
The amount my final high school spent on WiFi-enabled 'smart' whiteboards that were completely useless until my final year (at which point two teachers used them only sporadically and they usually gave up on them within 15-20 minutes bevause they were overly complicated and mostly not necessary) could have paid for 3-4 additional full time teachers. Or a lot of other things that the school actually needed.
-
Improving education begins with
- more teachers
and
- better pay....
Everything else is a lame excuse.
And most of "everything else" is generally a distraction from the main problems.
@JeffGrigg @flying_saucers @futurebird Nit: the word "lame" should really be retired from usage like this. It's gratuitously ableist and has plenty of non-hurtful alternatives.
-
Quite possible! (Anarchists are not really big on the church either.) But communities can build schools and staff them without a church organization, or young people can learn through one-on-one teaching from adults.
When looking at bad possible alternatives we have to compare them with what actually exists, not the ideal of what is supposed to exist.
I think it's beneficial to have education connected to larger secular bodies eg. the state because it forces all of the little communities with their "values" (values can be excellent, or horrible) to find some common ground.
Should we teach that the earth is flat?
Is evolution real?
Does *everyone* need to learn how to read?If you let "the local community" decide such things they have often made the wrong call on these questions which have objectively correct answers.
-
@JeffGrigg @flying_saucers @futurebird Nit: the word "lame" should really be retired from usage like this. It's gratuitously ableist and has plenty of non-hurtful alternatives.
@dalias @flying_saucers @futurebird
Noted and improved.
Alternatives to "lame excuse" here:
https://www.powerthesaurus.org/lame_excuse/synonyms -
@dalias @flying_saucers @futurebird
Noted and improved.
Alternatives to "lame excuse" here:
https://www.powerthesaurus.org/lame_excuse/synonyms@JeffGrigg @flying_saucers @futurebird Thanks!
️
![Mre. Dartigen [maker mode]](https://mediacdn.aus.social/accounts/avatars/108/195/770/473/016/150/original/d5b937db377b2251.gif "Mre. Dartigen [maker mode]"){kind=avatar}
