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Chebucto Regional Softball Club

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  3. "I don't want Politics in my Gaming!"
A forum for discussing and organizing recreational softball and baseball games and leagues in the greater Halifax area.

"I don't want Politics in my Gaming!"

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rpgmemes
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  • L lwl@lemmy.world
    What's the political assumption of pong? I mean I don't disagree with the sentiment, the moment something has world building or a story or goals that relate to real life non-abstractly, there's at least a political assumption, potentially an intentional statement. And people just don't notice when it conforms to their world view. But politics free entertainment can exist, even if being able to engage in that entertainment necessarily requires some sort of engagement with real politic systems.
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    Guest
    wrote last edited by
    #103

    That's a false argument your are making here.

    First : it's a TTRPG group. You can't have TTRPG without world building, story goals, etc.
    Second : Pong is not a TTRPG. AFAIK.
    Third : In case you don't know, people who tend to say "no politics in my gaming" (like gamergaters) actually do a very political statement as for them "being black" or "being gay" or "being a woman" etc. is often seen as "politics in [their] gaming".

    Sure, you can try to argue with the words, but it's not just words, they exists in a context and the context is that it's a fascist dog whistle.

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    • Jürgen HubertJ Jürgen Hubert
      Seriously. Every form of entertainment has baked-in political assumptions, and that definitely includes #ttrpg . You might *choose* not to examine them, but this is an active *choice* on your part, and you don't get to pretend that your entertainment is "free of politics".
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      Guest
      wrote last edited by
      #104
      "Politics" or "the way one sees the world"? Because I'm pretty sure there's a language disconnect regarding worldview. A dev has their game reflect their worldview, and a social curmudgeon experiences political rhetoric cognitive dissonance, illustrating the incongruency and the fact that they are, indeed, a tool. ARRGHHH MUH FREEDOMS
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      • Jürgen HubertJ Jürgen Hubert
        Seriously. Every form of entertainment has baked-in political assumptions, and that definitely includes #ttrpg . You might *choose* not to examine them, but this is an active *choice* on your part, and you don't get to pretend that your entertainment is "free of politics".
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        Guest
        wrote last edited by
        #105
        Ghost of Tsushima: A Samurai and several of his battle-ready female companions try to reclaim their island after Mongol invasion. I remember thinking "did they really have female warriors and lords back then who called the shots and fought alongside the men? I like the message, but a bit of realism would be nice...." And then our brave stoic rugged Samurai literally prostrates himself in front of his lord/uncle at every opportunity constantly grovelling and professing how unworthy he is and how he seeks only to serve, and then I'm thinking "oh yeah... the stoic Samurai is a trope, they were either small militias or snivelling arms of the state." So I'm okay with realism being bent if it means I'm not constantly questioning the values of my main character.
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        • ? Guest

          That's a false argument your are making here.

          First : it's a TTRPG group. You can't have TTRPG without world building, story goals, etc.
          Second : Pong is not a TTRPG. AFAIK.
          Third : In case you don't know, people who tend to say "no politics in my gaming" (like gamergaters) actually do a very political statement as for them "being black" or "being gay" or "being a woman" etc. is often seen as "politics in [their] gaming".

          Sure, you can try to argue with the words, but it's not just words, they exists in a context and the context is that it's a fascist dog whistle.

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          L This user is from outside of this forum
          lwl@lemmy.world
          wrote last edited by
          #106
          The statement was "every form of entertainment". Tbh tho yea i didnt really notice it being rpgmemes so it wasnt super relevant, that statement was surely not just meant for ttrpgs tho. I fully agree you can't have a ttrpg without political assumptions
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          • L lwl@lemmy.world
            What's the political assumption of pong? I mean I don't disagree with the sentiment, the moment something has world building or a story or goals that relate to real life non-abstractly, there's at least a political assumption, potentially an intentional statement. And people just don't notice when it conforms to their world view. But politics free entertainment can exist, even if being able to engage in that entertainment necessarily requires some sort of engagement with real politic systems.
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            Guest
            wrote last edited by
            #107
            Closest I've got, which I'm surprised nobody has mentioned, is the very concept that entertainment is a worthwhile pursuit, and that we aren't made solely to work. Pong serves no functional utility, which is a statement unto itself. That said, it feels a bit like a cop out to me, from what that quote is supposed to mean. I'd be content to rephrase it to "any sufficiently complex entertainment has politics in it". For example, I feel like this could almost certainly be said about stories in general, but I'd struggle to find the politics in many simple children's books, besides "children should be read to". Although the more I think about it, teaching all children to read _was_ once quite political.
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            • ? Guest
              Ghost of Tsushima: A Samurai and several of his battle-ready female companions try to reclaim their island after Mongol invasion. I remember thinking "did they really have female warriors and lords back then who called the shots and fought alongside the men? I like the message, but a bit of realism would be nice...." And then our brave stoic rugged Samurai literally prostrates himself in front of his lord/uncle at every opportunity constantly grovelling and professing how unworthy he is and how he seeks only to serve, and then I'm thinking "oh yeah... the stoic Samurai is a trope, they were either small militias or snivelling arms of the state." So I'm okay with realism being bent if it means I'm not constantly questioning the values of my main character.
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              stray@pawb.social
              wrote last edited by
              #108
              I'm not super familiar with either the game or Japanese history, but I found this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Onna-musha It seems that women were regarded more equally prior to confucianism. The page for the game says: >Jin's samurai armor and katana are not historically accurate, with his armor based on that of the Sengoku period during the 16th and 17th centuries. According to Chris Zimmerman, one of Sucker Punch's cofounders, samurai armor from the 13th century was "jarring looking" and did not align with players' expectations of what samurai armor would look like. Totally-not-samurai-looking armor: ![](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/69/Armour_red_threads_Kasuga_shrine.jpg)
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              • L lwl@lemmy.world
                What's the political assumption of pong? I mean I don't disagree with the sentiment, the moment something has world building or a story or goals that relate to real life non-abstractly, there's at least a political assumption, potentially an intentional statement. And people just don't notice when it conforms to their world view. But politics free entertainment can exist, even if being able to engage in that entertainment necessarily requires some sort of engagement with real politic systems.
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                stray@pawb.social
                wrote last edited by
                #109
                Pong is competitive rather than cooperative, and I find that very meaningful.
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                • S stray@pawb.social
                  I'm not super familiar with either the game or Japanese history, but I found this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Onna-musha It seems that women were regarded more equally prior to confucianism. The page for the game says: >Jin's samurai armor and katana are not historically accurate, with his armor based on that of the Sengoku period during the 16th and 17th centuries. According to Chris Zimmerman, one of Sucker Punch's cofounders, samurai armor from the 13th century was "jarring looking" and did not align with players' expectations of what samurai armor would look like. Totally-not-samurai-looking armor: ![](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/69/Armour_red_threads_Kasuga_shrine.jpg)
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                  Guest
                  wrote last edited by
                  #110
                  Yeah I've made peace with what I want from the game, because period-perfect accuracy would be way too jarring to stomach
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                  • Jürgen HubertJ Jürgen Hubert
                    Seriously. Every form of entertainment has baked-in political assumptions, and that definitely includes #ttrpg . You might *choose* not to examine them, but this is an active *choice* on your part, and you don't get to pretend that your entertainment is "free of politics".
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                    Guest
                    wrote last edited by
                    #111
                    I mean sometimes I just want to take a break from thinking about it and larp as "The good guys" for a while
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                    • Jürgen HubertJ Jürgen Hubert
                      Seriously. Every form of entertainment has baked-in political assumptions, and that definitely includes #ttrpg . You might *choose* not to examine them, but this is an active *choice* on your part, and you don't get to pretend that your entertainment is "free of politics".
                      JackbyDevJ This user is from outside of this forum
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                      JackbyDev
                      wrote last edited by
                      #112
                      I disagree, because typically it means someone is racist or sexist and just doesn't want to see people of color or queer characters. Such people may still be willing to engage with the political aspects of their gaming insofar as they may join initiatives like Stop Killing Games or argue that game devs should be treated better, but they're just bigoted assholes who can't handle people of color or queer characters. Also don't mistake this as a defense of them. They're deplorable. I'm just saying I don't agree with the statement as written.
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                      • ? Guest
                        >can you imagine fallout new vegas without the politics? og deus ex? You picked games that were built around the politics, and especially in case of NV did it very well. Let's pick an example where politics are hamfisted and poorly: Last of Us 2. I can imagine a Last of Us without hamfisted politics, or actually, even better than that. I don't have to imagine: I can just look at Last of Us 1.
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                        stray@pawb.social
                        wrote last edited by
                        #113
                        What's-her-face being gay is like the least political thing about Pluribus.
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                        • ? Guest
                          If you want mindless slop, then play it. It certainly exists. Real art and proper storytelling makes you feel things and reflects the the world we live in.
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                          Guest
                          wrote last edited by
                          #114
                          You can have a story without AI slop or politics.
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                          • ? Guest
                            Nah some people genuinely just want an escape from the world. Politics is a shit show right now and is always in our faces while many of us feel helpless.
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                            stray@pawb.social
                            wrote last edited by
                            #115
                            For some people an escape from the world is cute squirrel who can't remember where they buried all their treasures. Others will cry that the squirrel is unnecessarily political because they don't use he or she pronouns.
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                            • ? Guest
                              I love politics in gaming, I loved Fallout 3, NV,4 (I still enjoyed it but to a lesser extent), Cyberpunk, and Outer Worlds 1/2. I love it when a game has multiple factions, I love when you get to really understand the politics of a fictional world, and I love stories involving politics.
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                              wrote last edited by
                              #116
                              Yes agree, scheming and politicking can make the game mechanics really work.
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                              • S stray@pawb.social
                                For some people an escape from the world is cute squirrel who can't remember where they buried all their treasures. Others will cry that the squirrel is unnecessarily political because they don't use he or she pronouns.
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                                Guest
                                wrote last edited by
                                #117
                                Some people do make politics their personality and can find it in anything.
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                                • Jürgen HubertJ Jürgen Hubert
                                  Seriously. Every form of entertainment has baked-in political assumptions, and that definitely includes #ttrpg . You might *choose* not to examine them, but this is an active *choice* on your part, and you don't get to pretend that your entertainment is "free of politics".
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                                  Guest
                                  wrote last edited by
                                  #118
                                  Honestly, with how things are right now politically - FAIR! Let me roll some silly dice as a silly little guy while I ignore the prelude to another world war.
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                                  • ? Guest
                                    You can have a story without AI slop or politics.
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                                    wrote last edited by
                                    #119
                                    I wasn't talking about AI slop. I was talking about mindless games that don't take any position on anything. IMHO, the best games are ones that make you feel something or question something critically. You can have games that make a political statement and are fun to play. Helldivers, GTA, BioShock, Disco Elysium, etc. If you're uncomfortable with the point that a game is making, then that's on you (and is the point of OPs comic). There are certainly plenty of games that take no political stance on anything that I'm sure you can numb your mind with. Just play something else if you are feeling too judged.
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                                    • L lwl@lemmy.world
                                      Yeah generally when talking about a thing you draw a circle around the thing, that's how that works. My glass from ikea isn't making any political statement or assumption in its design as a finished product (unless you consider presumed size requirement for a beverage container to be political) the process behind its design, manufacturing, and sale very much is political as fuck though.
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                                      sirblastalot@ttrpg.network
                                      wrote last edited by
                                      #120
                                      You slightly moved the goalposts there. The assertion is not "Everything is making a political *statement*" it's "Everything is political." Your ikea glass reflects your social class, the international relations between where you are and where it was made. It may have been made by an oppressed person in some third world shithole (or even sweden!) It may even *be* a political statement, like a designer somewhere made it curvy because he thinks people are more likely to buy something with a "feminine" silhouette.
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                                      • Jürgen HubertJ Jürgen Hubert
                                        Seriously. Every form of entertainment has baked-in political assumptions, and that definitely includes #ttrpg . You might *choose* not to examine them, but this is an active *choice* on your part, and you don't get to pretend that your entertainment is "free of politics".
                                        Ross WinnR This user is from outside of this forum
                                        Ross WinnR This user is from outside of this forum
                                        Ross Winn
                                        wrote last edited by
                                        #121
                                        RPGs, much like SF, have always been a mechanism to explore social issues in philosophy, governance, and thought. In Human society I don’t personally believe that “politics” can be avoided in any group anywhere. —of course that’s just one man’s opinion.
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                                        • ? Guest
                                          You can tell what someone’s politics are by what they consider political. I was astonished at some of the Steam reviews of Outer Worlds after playing it. People proper pissed off that their experience had been *ruined* because there’s a female side character with an optional side quest where she wants a date with another woman. Like how thoroughly filled with hate do you have to be as a person, to be fine with all the mass killing but suddenly get a moralistic high horse about a fictional character going on a dinner date you don’t approve of. Sad that Steam are making a comment of their own by allowing those reviews to stay up.
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                                          Guest
                                          wrote last edited by
                                          #122
                                          While I haven't read those reviews, I think the implications of Steam removing reviews would be worse, since they would effectively be manipulating the user score of a game. User reviews are just that, user reviews. The score should indicate what users think, whatever their reasons may be for thinking it, no? I don't disagree with the rest of what you said though.
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