I haven't actually seen Torchwood, but I am skeptical that it could possibly be gayer than my beloved Sense8. I do like that era of Doctor Who though, so maybe I should check this out for myself...

Prequels? You don't think the original Star Wars had tons of politics in it?

What's the political assumption of pong? I mean I don't disagree with the sentiment, the moment something has world building or a story or goals that relate to real life non-abstractly, there's at least a political assumption, potentially an intentional statement. And people just don't notice when it conforms to their world view. But politics free entertainment can exist, even if being able to engage in that entertainment necessarily requires some sort of engagement with real politic systems.

>can you imagine fallout new vegas without the politics? og deus ex? You picked games that were built around the politics, and especially in case of NV did it very well. Let's pick an example where politics are hamfisted and poorly: Last of Us 2. I can imagine a Last of Us without hamfisted politics, or actually, even better than that. I don't have to imagine: I can just look at Last of Us 1.

You can tell what someone’s politics are by what they consider political. I was astonished at some of the Steam reviews of Outer Worlds after playing it. People proper pissed off that their experience had been *ruined* because there’s a female side character with an optional side quest where she wants a date with another woman. Like how thoroughly filled with hate do you have to be as a person, to be fine with all the mass killing but suddenly get a moralistic high horse about a fictional character going on a dinner date you don’t approve of. Sad that Steam are making a comment of their own by allowing those reviews to stay up.

meh. artists grow over time. and studios grow in the flexibility they have to message. support another studio that gives you what you want.

Steam definitely has a libertarian streak, seemingly. I wish I had started switching over to GOG a lot sooner.

Glancing at Wikipedia for any Pong discourse. Found a likely example. Turns out Pong had a bug (read: feature) that contributed to its place as the first commercial success in video games. Quote, > the in-game paddles were unable to reach the top of the screen. This was caused by a simple circuit that had an inherent defect. Instead of dedicating time to fixing the defect, Alcorn decided it gave the game more difficulty and helped **limit the time the game could be played** [per payment] So, Pong established the concept of video games systematically favouring the rich. Are we there yet, is that political enough?

Exactly! Almost everything in our lives that matters ultimately is reliant and depends on politics and policy. When people say "I don't really care about politics," what they are really saying is they don't like thinking at all.

There is still no political assumption in the game itself. Of course the moment you consider the means of acquiring it, everything touches on politics, even going to the forest and throwing a random stick, because forests existing is politics, them being accessible is politics, and you being allowed (or not) to throw a random stick is politics. That doesn't make the concept of "throw stick at target for fun" political.

If you want mindless slop, then play it. It certainly exists. Real art and proper storytelling makes you feel things and reflects the the world we live in.

Alright yes, if you deliberately _draw a circle around a portion of your entertainment_ and say "this is the part I like because it's not political!" that's still a political choice, which is the entire point OP is making, ICYMI. **Everything is political**, even the choice to isolate one thing as non-political. The fact is that politics are only escapable if you're privileged to be the kind of person who gets to say "shut up about politics, I'm trying to play Pong!"

Yeah generally when talking about a thing you draw a circle around the thing, that's how that works. My glass from ikea isn't making any political statement or assumption in its design as a finished product (unless you consider presumed size requirement for a beverage container to be political) the process behind its design, manufacturing, and sale very much is political as fuck though.

Okay, well I'm drawing a circle around how much more interesting it is to talk about politics than whatever this was.

Pong represents the slow but inevitable march towards socialism

How DARE you make your game try to reflect reality.

That's a false argument your are making here.

First : it's a TTRPG group. You can't have TTRPG without world building, story goals, etc.
Second : Pong is not a TTRPG. AFAIK.
Third : In case you don't know, people who tend to say "no politics in my gaming" (like gamergaters) actually do a very political statement as for them "being black" or "being gay" or "being a woman" etc. is often seen as "politics in [their] gaming".

Sure, you can try to argue with the words, but it's not just words, they exists in a context and the context is that it's a fascist dog whistle.

"Politics" or "the way one sees the world"? Because I'm pretty sure there's a language disconnect regarding worldview. A dev has their game reflect their worldview, and a social curmudgeon experiences political rhetoric cognitive dissonance, illustrating the incongruency and the fact that they are, indeed, a tool. ARRGHHH MUH FREEDOMS

Ghost of Tsushima: A Samurai and several of his battle-ready female companions try to reclaim their island after Mongol invasion. I remember thinking "did they really have female warriors and lords back then who called the shots and fought alongside the men? I like the message, but a bit of realism would be nice...." And then our brave stoic rugged Samurai literally prostrates himself in front of his lord/uncle at every opportunity constantly grovelling and professing how unworthy he is and how he seeks only to serve, and then I'm thinking "oh yeah... the stoic Samurai is a trope, they were either small militias or snivelling arms of the state." So I'm okay with realism being bent if it means I'm not constantly questioning the values of my main character.

The statement was "every form of entertainment". Tbh tho yea i didnt really notice it being rpgmemes so it wasnt super relevant, that statement was surely not just meant for ttrpgs tho. I fully agree you can't have a ttrpg without political assumptions