I really do not understand "The Line" living in NYC, one of the more dense cities in the world, every day I appreciate the way we've solved the problems created by having so many people in one place.
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I really do not understand "The Line" living in NYC, one of the more dense cities in the world, every day I appreciate the way we've solved the problems created by having so many people in one place.
And every day I see dozens of ways we could do it better.
But each new idea in urban planning has many interdependent impacts. Even ideas that sound wonderful can have perverse consequences. Urban Density is a body of knowledge developed over thousands of years of human history. 1/
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I really do not understand "The Line" living in NYC, one of the more dense cities in the world, every day I appreciate the way we've solved the problems created by having so many people in one place.
And every day I see dozens of ways we could do it better.
But each new idea in urban planning has many interdependent impacts. Even ideas that sound wonderful can have perverse consequences. Urban Density is a body of knowledge developed over thousands of years of human history. 1/
It's critical that "solutions" to problems like housing, transportation, urban ecology, etc have been tested not just in a computer simulation but by people who have lived with all of these ideas in real cities and who know what really happens.
Designing a city like a giant appliance is madness. This was the insight of Jane Jacobs: catastrophic development always risks catastrophic failure.
To make futuristic densities the city must evolve in conversation with human activity. 2/
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It's critical that "solutions" to problems like housing, transportation, urban ecology, etc have been tested not just in a computer simulation but by people who have lived with all of these ideas in real cities and who know what really happens.
Designing a city like a giant appliance is madness. This was the insight of Jane Jacobs: catastrophic development always risks catastrophic failure.
To make futuristic densities the city must evolve in conversation with human activity. 2/
This isn't to say you can't ever think big. In fact, it's important to strive to implement big plans, but the process where they are transformed and adapted to fit the living mess that is any city is kind of the whole point?
I want to see the city of one billion people. Nobody knows how to build it yet. It must grow.
3/3
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This isn't to say you can't ever think big. In fact, it's important to strive to implement big plans, but the process where they are transformed and adapted to fit the living mess that is any city is kind of the whole point?
I want to see the city of one billion people. Nobody knows how to build it yet. It must grow.
3/3
"The Line" is a car-free utopia and somehow everyone who ought to love that... hates it.
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"The Line" is a car-free utopia and somehow everyone who ought to love that... hates it.
@futurebird IMHO it's rather a dystopia, that happens to be car-free.
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@futurebird IMHO it's rather a dystopia, that happens to be car-free.
I don't get it AT ALL.
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"The Line" is a car-free utopia and somehow everyone who ought to love that... hates it.
@futurebird i mean compared to a grid, a line just trivially increases travel time to most of the possible destinations
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@futurebird i mean compared to a grid, a line just trivially increases travel time to most of the possible destinations
Do people hate being near things?
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@futurebird i mean compared to a grid, a line just trivially increases travel time to most of the possible destinations
Let's say they build the line. The temptation to just... stick a shop just outside of it in the empty desert but close to so many people (let's assume people go live in it for some reason too) will be intolerable.
The enforcement needed to keep secret shops hidden in the rocks just outside the line from cropping up will be immense.
And why commute when you could pitch a tent right by your work in a little hole just outside the widow of your job location?
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F myrmepropagandist shared this topic
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Let's say they build the line. The temptation to just... stick a shop just outside of it in the empty desert but close to so many people (let's assume people go live in it for some reason too) will be intolerable.
The enforcement needed to keep secret shops hidden in the rocks just outside the line from cropping up will be immense.
And why commute when you could pitch a tent right by your work in a little hole just outside the widow of your job location?
"We will change the plan to suit humanity."
"We will change humanity to suit the plan."
I feel that Jane Jacobs had a lot to say about the choice between these two things, and while I'm sad that we lost her, I'm sort of relieved that she didn't live to see the Line.
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"The Line" is a car-free utopia and somehow everyone who ought to love that... hates it.
I see The Line as a repressive authoritarian's wet-dream. For inter-district travel residents have to rely on mass transit. And the trams/trains/buses can simply go past certain stations with their doors closed if the authorities want to isolate the residents. And there's no way to route around it! Imagine how a "no kings" protest would have played out in The Line …
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I see The Line as a repressive authoritarian's wet-dream. For inter-district travel residents have to rely on mass transit. And the trams/trains/buses can simply go past certain stations with their doors closed if the authorities want to isolate the residents. And there's no way to route around it! Imagine how a "no kings" protest would have played out in The Line …
@cstross @futurebird It's like they watched Snowpiercer and were like, "Hmm, you know..."
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@cstross @futurebird It's like they watched Snowpiercer and were like, "Hmm, you know..."
If it's not a moving train how do you keep people from using the space to the left and right of the line?
The pressure to develop will be immense. I don't even think the desert and an authoritarian government could stop it.
It will be surrounded by shanty towns. Also it will need to be since they have not thought about where all of the poor people who will do all the work to keep it clean and pretty will live.
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If it's not a moving train how do you keep people from using the space to the left and right of the line?
The pressure to develop will be immense. I don't even think the desert and an authoritarian government could stop it.
It will be surrounded by shanty towns. Also it will need to be since they have not thought about where all of the poor people who will do all the work to keep it clean and pretty will live.
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It's critical that "solutions" to problems like housing, transportation, urban ecology, etc have been tested not just in a computer simulation but by people who have lived with all of these ideas in real cities and who know what really happens.
Designing a city like a giant appliance is madness. This was the insight of Jane Jacobs: catastrophic development always risks catastrophic failure.
To make futuristic densities the city must evolve in conversation with human activity. 2/
@futurebird What make a city infastructure feel alive to me is that it is an amalgam of different choices layered over hundreds of years. Thousands of tiny choices: how thick to make a window frame, how tall above street level is the main floor. Buildings built by individuals then repurposed, styles changing over time. Untold layers built up over decades.
A single mind, or even a team of minds, is not able to replicate decades of choices, to capture that humanity. Sterility reigns because it's easier to use standardized forms. Function becomes less important than ease of decision making.
Planned cimmunities like this is always about control. One mind making the choices, either to earn money off the venture or control people. Everything else is window dressing, a sales job.
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"The Line" is a car-free utopia and somehow everyone who ought to love that... hates it.
@futurebird It's just another very stupid idea pitched to or originating from a ruthless autocrat that'll eventually end up buried in sand dunes.. By the time Muhammad bin Salman meets his maker, the Saudi desert will be dotted with super-size artifacts fit to close a dozen Planet of the Apes sequels.
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@futurebird It's just another very stupid idea pitched to or originating from a ruthless autocrat that'll eventually end up buried in sand dunes.. By the time Muhammad bin Salman meets his maker, the Saudi desert will be dotted with super-size artifacts fit to close a dozen Planet of the Apes sequels.
I guess I just ... I don't know. There are may mediocre or even slightly good ideas lying around... why not do one of those?
Just.
Why.
