Werewolf The Apocalypse 5e by Renegade Games Is Bad
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So are you saying that all the mechanics are generic enough that they don't support the Forsaken's specific story anyway?
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if you're not familiar with CofD, it's not built like oWoD with a hard meta-plot and setting. it's much more sandbox with story seeds/elements. you make the story. it's designed to be a werewolf game. which it is very good at.
Just that while the setting sounds fundamentally very similar between the two Vampires with just differences in details, it sounds very different between the two Werewolf settings and the two Mage settings. Notably, from what I've heard the relationship between werewolves and spirits is fundamentally completely different between the two, to the point that I'd expect system differences.
Plus I've heard Werewolf: the Forsaken criticized as being more of a shaman game than a werewolf game.
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Just that while the setting sounds fundamentally very similar between the two Vampires with just differences in details, it sounds very different between the two Werewolf settings and the two Mage settings. Notably, from what I've heard the relationship between werewolves and spirits is fundamentally completely different between the two, to the point that I'd expect system differences.
Plus I've heard Werewolf: the Forsaken criticized as being more of a shaman game than a werewolf game.
they're different games, so yes the setting assumptions are different and the systems aren't exactly the same. but if one wants to import story elements from WoD, they can. it is shaman-y, but i wouldn't say that overshadows the Werewolf in 2e. worth scoping out for yourself. -
well, if you haven't yet, consider taking a look at WtF2e. it's quite good actually. CofD really came into its own with the 2e lines.
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they're different games, so yes the setting assumptions are different and the systems aren't exactly the same. but if one wants to import story elements from WoD, they can. it is shaman-y, but i wouldn't say that overshadows the Werewolf in 2e. worth scoping out for yourself.
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From what I remember of forsaken is they removed the driving goal of werewolves, stop the apocalypse and save Gaia. And replaced it with you are a werewolf, have fun.
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That's the hollowing out. They gutted things and didn't put anything in the hole, like a bad taxidermist. 
@Sunsofold Unfortunately, that’s the same trend WotC has been going with in regards to lore. I prefer the Paizo approach of the world evolving, changing, rather than just removing things whole cloth and leaving it to the GM to figure it out.
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@Sunsofold Unfortunately, that’s the same trend WotC has been going with in regards to lore. I prefer the Paizo approach of the world evolving, changing, rather than just removing things whole cloth and leaving it to the GM to figure it out.
If you try to make a system that generalizes to any context, it will never be deep enough to truly embrace any context.
