Jesus does this thing where he says "take some of this bread, it's my body"
"take this wine it's my blood"

Taking common humble objects and ascribing greater significance. (Or saying they transform if you like)

It's *odd* that everyone gets obsessed with the *particular* cup used on this occasion. (But long after the fact.)

Kind of feels like it is missing the point? Couldn't ANY cup be the holy grail? Just like ANY bread can be the body of Christ.

@futurebird@sauropods.win Durch die Wandlung kann jeder Becher zum wahren Kelch werden. Ein wichtiges Reliqium sind die Splitter des Kreuzes an dem Jesus so gehangen hat. Aus den heute noch erhaltenen Splittern könnten 3452 Kreuze an denen Jesus gehangen hat rekonstruiert werden. Mit dem Blut, das Statuen von Jesus bluten, werden jedes Jahr 348 verunglückte Motorradfahrer mit Blutkonserven versorgt.

Consider some objects that are precious that you'd never throw away.

A gift of jewelry from a friend or lover. A special drawing by a child. A poem written by hand by someone who passed away.

If that object were replaced with an *identical* copy would you feel loss? Knowing that you had a perfect copy? But not the original.

I want to say "no I would not care" but this is a big fat lie I think.

@futurebird I think we're getting into Ship of Theseus territory.

Jesus does this thing where he says "take some of this bread, it's my body"
"take this wine it's my blood"

Taking common humble objects and ascribing greater significance. (Or saying they transform if you like)

It's *odd* that everyone gets obsessed with the *particular* cup used on this occasion. (But long after the fact.)

Kind of feels like it is missing the point? Couldn't ANY cup be the holy grail? Just like ANY bread can be the body of Christ.

@futurebird
The answer is that the Arthurian Holy Grail was not originally associated with the Christian holy chalice; the Holy Grail was just a magical cup with healing powers, and the Jesus stuff was ret-conned in later. The holy chalice just inherited this pre-existing significance, and then the English colonized everybody.

@Mkagle

Yeah we're already on that one already.

Listen. Let's say I wrote a fan fiction where I describe a romance that isn't in the cannon, but then someone rewrites it so that one of the two people in the relationship is different, then another person rewrites it so that the other one is also different and now the relationship *is* cannon.

Is it still a ship?

@futurebird @Mkagle Where on the ship's deck is this cannon mounted?

@jamey

I do have a connection to sailboats as it happens.

But I tend to care most that they are in working order and that the rest of the crew can cover the things I can't do.

And boats are replaced "all at once" when they can't be saved. People often given them the same name, and end up thinking of it as the same as more time passes?

@futurebird

The Ship of Theseus idea reminds me when I hear it, that the water of Earth cycles, and mixes over the ages such that our bodies, contain a number of water molecules from all living people & creatures beyond a certain point in the past. A couple of thousand years might be a good benchmark...

@jamey