I often worry that I'm doing something that annoys people, at work, at home, online, on the bus anywhere...
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My unwillingness to talk about other people "behind their back" now makes me worry that I'm not a good friend.
I can understand that sometimes we just want to complain and have someone agree that it's a valid complaint. Not "Solve The Problem(tm)" I get that.
But, it's really easy to make up a version of a person who doesn't exist if you never talk to them and just talk about them.
"Oh she's selfish and makes you cover her classes too much? TELL HER." (for example.)
2/2
@futurebird I struggle with this one. Sometimes there are people in the community who are just not gonna change a certain type of behavior, and the behavior is annoying but not, y'know, criminal. I can see why people want to complain behind the back of that person; it helps them cope with someone who they want to maintain friendly relations with. Still makes me uncomfortable, though, and I usually don't unless the framing is "how do I better cope with the thing that won't change."
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My unwillingness to talk about other people "behind their back" now makes me worry that I'm not a good friend.
I can understand that sometimes we just want to complain and have someone agree that it's a valid complaint. Not "Solve The Problem(tm)" I get that.
But, it's really easy to make up a version of a person who doesn't exist if you never talk to them and just talk about them.
"Oh she's selfish and makes you cover her classes too much? TELL HER." (for example.)
2/2
@futurebird yes. and i continually need to re-learn which folks just need someone to listen to their complaints. my natural tendency is to then say: how can we fix this? but (and it still surprises me), this seems to just add another problem to the person’s list? learning learning learning…
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@futurebird I struggle with this one. Sometimes there are people in the community who are just not gonna change a certain type of behavior, and the behavior is annoying but not, y'know, criminal. I can see why people want to complain behind the back of that person; it helps them cope with someone who they want to maintain friendly relations with. Still makes me uncomfortable, though, and I usually don't unless the framing is "how do I better cope with the thing that won't change."
@futurebird also, sometimes I do things I am not interested in changing. For example, I am unusually comfortable with directly confronting authority figures, and this makes some people super uncomfortable. They perceive it as arrogant and stirring up trouble. And sometimes they have a point! Sometimes it would be much better if I shut up. But I don't want to change that one, and I'm not really interested in hearing criticism about it.
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@futurebird also, sometimes I do things I am not interested in changing. For example, I am unusually comfortable with directly confronting authority figures, and this makes some people super uncomfortable. They perceive it as arrogant and stirring up trouble. And sometimes they have a point! Sometimes it would be much better if I shut up. But I don't want to change that one, and I'm not really interested in hearing criticism about it.
@futurebird (at least not in the "be more deferential to men so you don't poke their ego" sense, which it's often related to)
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I'm still confused by all of this.
Some years ago, somebody hipped me to the whole Ask v Guess thing, which explained a •lot• of the communication fails I've experienced. More recently, a friend put me onto "Occult Grammar", which seems possibly even more explanatory. (The meat starts in the 2nd part, but Part 1 has some good framing, incl a link to the original explanation of Ask v Guess.)
What Is Occult Grammar?
Writing and Stuff from Isaac Z. Schlueter
(blog.izs.me)
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My unwillingness to talk about other people "behind their back" now makes me worry that I'm not a good friend.
I can understand that sometimes we just want to complain and have someone agree that it's a valid complaint. Not "Solve The Problem(tm)" I get that.
But, it's really easy to make up a version of a person who doesn't exist if you never talk to them and just talk about them.
"Oh she's selfish and makes you cover her classes too much? TELL HER." (for example.)
2/2
@futurebird I have a friend who is very good at listening to venting and deflecting gossip. She responds with empathy, focusing on the emotion(s) of the person she's talking to rather than on the behaviour of the target. She doesn't talk about the third person at all.
"I'm sorry you had to go through that; it must have been (painful, embarrassing, annoying... )" -
My unwillingness to talk about other people "behind their back" now makes me worry that I'm not a good friend.
I can understand that sometimes we just want to complain and have someone agree that it's a valid complaint. Not "Solve The Problem(tm)" I get that.
But, it's really easy to make up a version of a person who doesn't exist if you never talk to them and just talk about them.
"Oh she's selfish and makes you cover her classes too much? TELL HER." (for example.)
2/2
That seems odd that they are getting mad at you for not blaming a third person.
I wonder if maybe you are complaining and centering it on some failure about you or the general world when the problem is the third person.
Maybe they don’t like the complaining and know it can be solved if you focused on the real problem.
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That seems odd that they are getting mad at you for not blaming a third person.
I wonder if maybe you are complaining and centering it on some failure about you or the general world when the problem is the third person.
Maybe they don’t like the complaining and know it can be solved if you focused on the real problem.
I have a recurring tiff like that with my husband over a shared colleague. It’s not that he wants to bond with me over complaining about her, he wants me to stop complaining about the problems she causes (eg putting too much of her work on me)
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I have a recurring tiff like that with my husband over a shared colleague. It’s not that he wants to bond with me over complaining about her, he wants me to stop complaining about the problems she causes (eg putting too much of her work on me)
This is why I wonder if that’s what is going on with your coworkers because the reaction you describe is so similar.
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That seems odd that they are getting mad at you for not blaming a third person.
I wonder if maybe you are complaining and centering it on some failure about you or the general world when the problem is the third person.
Maybe they don’t like the complaining and know it can be solved if you focused on the real problem.
They aren't getting mad at me. I'm just fretting over if they might be mad... and not telling me. This is a theme.
I'm always worried someone is mad about something and not telling me.
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I have a recurring tiff like that with my husband over a shared colleague. It’s not that he wants to bond with me over complaining about her, he wants me to stop complaining about the problems she causes (eg putting too much of her work on me)
I don't know if I understand. Are you saying he's tired of hearing you complain about this person because to him you aren't fixing it?
I think I've lost the thread here.
