Lol. Sure, buddy.

From the get go you start by saying that if they try to lower their cut people will accuse them of trying to become a monopoly, which is completely idiotic considering they're already in a monopolistic position. Then you act like rich people have no power over the fact that they're accumulating wealth while the majority of the world is struggling to live. I have zero respect for people who defend those who take advantage of the majority. Off to the block list with you.

Lol. Take advantage of who?

I don't think they tried releasing a compelling product.

I think their biggest hurdle was that they are owned by Jeff Bezos

Yeah, Steam is a monopoly, but 1) they've been a monopoly since forever and there hasn't been a Comcast-ish disaster, and 2) more competition doesn't seem to actually benefit us here but could potentially make things a lot worse. In principle, Steam is a Sword Of Damocles just like any other Monopoly. In practice, the alternatives are EA and Epic, *no thank you* (I know itch.io is a good competitor, but they don't have any pull on AAA publishers so I don't expect them to take the market if Steam implodes). Also, Valve is innovating in ways that nobody else seems willing to - not just their Linux ports (represent!), but also their attempts on HTPC gaming (which was unnecessarily a huge pain in the ass on PC, for no good reason) and their steam controller. And their portable PC gaming with the Steam deck (which to be fair GPD probably did first). All in all, I'm happy to pay the Steam tax for what they're doing. I have no illusions that Epic Games Store would provide serious competition in terms of the goodies I want, because *they already aren't, and they're still in their sweetheart phase*.

They disrupted the status quo back in 2003 (2001?), then in 2009 they were doing Linux ports, then in ~2015 they were doing HTPC stuff (and also funding Linux graphic driver dev the entire time, Linux gaming in its current state *would not exist* without Valve), there was their Steam Machine experiment somewhere in there (it flopped but that doesn't make it cost any less), then they were doing Steam Deck stuff. They're still paying Linux graphic devs BTW.

>What Epic means by “for developers” is, developers keep more of the money. Walk me through how that’s bad for you. Why should we accept an objectively worse storefront run by psychopaths because developers make more money under some circumstances? EGS is not supporting open-source software, Linux, VR. Their online backend is awful, with their chat and multiplayer still sucking years later. No remote play or remote play together. They don't allow user tags or reviews. They are missing incredibly basic library sorting controls. No easily accessible news/update notes from developers. They have adopted virtually none of the pro-consumer moves such as identifying dead games, DRM, or third-party launchers before you buy. No custom profile pictures. Also worth noting the featured/recommended list in the Steam store does a good job, even sending me the odd game with like 5 reviews that might actually suit my interests. I have on more than one occasion bought games I'd probably never see without this, and I'm in some communities with indie devs. I've demoed and tested games no one has ever heard of. If Steam can find me gems in the rough while I'm that low to the ground, they're doing a good job. If that feature alone isn't worth Steam's cut to you, frankly you deeply misunderstand the marketplace in general and just how damned hard it is to sell a game as a nobody. EGS and Prime will never support indie devs or niche titles this way, because it doesn't make them money. Steam will, because it does. Think about that.

>> Why should we do a thing that's completely unrelated to the question being asked? Incorrect. What Epic means by "for developers," is... developers keep more of the money. Walk me through how *that, specifically,* is bad for you. I am not interested in general attacks against Epic. I make no general defense of Epic. Fortnite's business model should be illegal. But what you're doing is bad argumentation. You're reaching for ways to say 'Epic bad' as if that's gotta be relevant. As if attacking Epic in general constitutes a defense of one specific thing Valve does. As if promoting Valve in general means this one specific thing can't be wrong. As for indie support - Valve doesn't need to push big games on their store, because *they have a monopoly.* There is no sense telling people 'if you're gonna buy it on PC, buy it on Steam!,' because of course you will. Indie games 'don't make Epic money' because Alan fucking Wake barely makes them money. Their market share is garbage. Steam has the freedom and the incentive to push more game sales, of any kind, and there's a lot more little games than big ones. None of what Valve is doing would suddenly disappear if they took *only* one-quarter of gross revenue. Or a fifth. Or less. They're shaving straight off the top for nearly the entire PC gaming market. Their war-chest is ridiculous. They have such a "petro curse" that they briefly forgot to make games. Yet they treat the studios that make them *all of their money* the same way Nintendo and Sony squeeze console developers. Would criticizing *this specific cut* be easier, if we talked about Apple's iron grip on the App Store? Because it's the same damn policy. Feel free to talk shit about when Apple does it, if you insist on judging whole entities instead of what they do.

They also charge storage fees to keep your products on their shelf in the warehouse.

>Would criticizing this specific cut be easier, if we talked about Apple’s iron grip on the App Store? Because it’s the same damn policy. Except that it isn't? Apple doesn't let you circumvent their store, while Steam not only allows games to have their own monetization system, it allows off-site sales of the game on Steam. That is significantly more permissive, by a degree of magnitude that makes me wonder about your sincerity.

Two comments ago: >> Their cut is so huge that they can afford to let devs sell keys elsewhere, knowing it makes no difference to their immense profit margin. >> >> Largely because their monopoly is self-reinforcing, and the number of off-site sales is a rounding error. Let's try this again. How is a 30% gross cut worse for consumers than 15%? Because *that* policy, *that specific policy,* is shared by Nintendo, Apple, Google, Sony, Microsoft... and Valve.

And yet again, not one of those other vendors are anywhere near as permissive for developers or as good to consumers as Valve is. You lumping them in with the others is deeply unfair. If devs want to get a better cut, Itch.io and GOG are there and they don't steal people's information and fuck consumers the way EGS does. I will not support storefronts owned by psychopaths: I avoid Amazon almost completely, I do not buy from Apple or Google stores, and I'm not going to buy anything from EGS either. Put your game on Itch or GOG. Simple as.

Not an answer. Not a defense of Valve's 30% cut. You're not being serious.

> You realize that the cut they’re taking ends up being used to pay for a yacht collection, right? God forbid a man spend his money however he wants. Get that commie bullshit out of here. Money changes hands consensually and Gaben/Valve have more than earned mine. Treating your customers like they are your priority in running a service will do that. > There’s nothing great about Valve at this point Except their massive contributions to the Open Source/Linux ecosystems with Vulkan and Proton, SteamVR being the only properly supported agnostic VR library, and them basically being the one thing between us and Microsoft becoming a walled garden when it comes to gaming, and more recently the Steam Deck? If you *gotta* be a hater, at least be correct.

Wow, continue defending billionaires like that, I'm sure their wealth will trickle all the way down to you any day now.

Implying I care LMAO I'm more than economically comfortable, by no means a billionaire but I'm not hurting like, at all. I own my own home, I am set to inherit like 2 more houses, I make good money at a stable job, I have time for my hobbies and a family I love. I want for nothing that I can't have, with some patience. Gaben having a Yacht collection makes no difference to me, Steam existing and Valve doing what they do *does,* so I am happy to see them thrive. Not everyone is an envious crab in a bucket who feels the constant need to compare themselves to others and ensure nobody is more well off than they are. What a sad life you must lead that you get this angry over something that doesn't affect you in the least, or did Gabe outbid you on your dream yacht?

Me me me me me My dude, the world isn't only about you. You're much closer to ending up on the street than you are from any billionaire that exists.

> My dude, the world isn't only about you. It's not about you and your inferiority complex, either. > You're much closer to ending up on the street than you are from any billionaire that exists. I'm also much closer to the center of the earth than the sun, I'm still quite far from either, and I'm not very worried about being *near* either anytime soon. Short of world war 3 or some other world-shaking catastrophe that won't be my problem alone, I'm pretty sure my biggest worries are my health and not getting hit by a car, rather than sudden bankruptcy, and I don't live in the US so the former can't lead to the latter. > Now off to the block list you go, people like you don't deserve anyone's attention. You're not a plane, you don't need to announce your departure.