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Chebucto Regional Softball Club

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  3. After GOTY pull, Clair Obscur devs draw line in sand over AI: 'Everything will be made by humans by us'
A forum for discussing and organizing recreational softball and baseball games and leagues in the greater Halifax area.

After GOTY pull, Clair Obscur devs draw line in sand over AI: 'Everything will be made by humans by us'

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  • ? Guest
    Nature is healing.
    woelkchen@lemmy.worldW This user is from outside of this forum
    woelkchen@lemmy.worldW This user is from outside of this forum
    woelkchen@lemmy.world
    wrote last edited by
    #32
    > Nature is healing. Nah, they're lying. They'll just cover their tracks better in the future.
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    • ? Guest
      Do human artists usually get consent before training on content freely available on the Internet? There are plenty of reasons to hate on AI, but this reason is just being pissed that a silicon brain did it instead of a carbon one.
      starman2112@sh.itjust.worksS This user is from outside of this forum
      starman2112@sh.itjust.worksS This user is from outside of this forum
      starman2112@sh.itjust.works
      wrote last edited by
      #33
      Humans aren't machines, dummy
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      • ? Guest
        Right, because computers don't use silicone. But Gen AI is modeled after the way the brain works, so maybe **you** need to learn how it works before arguing against a comparison.
        starman2112@sh.itjust.worksS This user is from outside of this forum
        starman2112@sh.itjust.worksS This user is from outside of this forum
        starman2112@sh.itjust.works
        wrote last edited by
        #34
        >But Gen AI is modeled after the way the brain works, This planet is doomed
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        • woelkchen@lemmy.worldW woelkchen@lemmy.world
          > Do you expect copyright laws to mention every single type of transformative work acceptable? You are being purposely ignorant. I asked nicely to provide a quote that machine generation is also covered that you couldn't provide and now feels the need to lash out. And yes, I absolutely expect that machine generation is explicitly mentioned for the simple fact that right now machine generated anything is not copyrightable at all. A computer isn't smart, a computer isn't creative. It's output doesn't pass the [threshold of originality](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Threshold_of_originality), as such there is no creative transformation happening, as there is with reinterpretations of songs. What is copyrightable are the works that served as training set, therefore there absolutely has to be an explicit mention somewhere that machine generated works do not simply pass the original copyright into the generated work, just like how a human writes source code and the compiled executable is still the human author's work.
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          Guest
          wrote last edited by
          #35
          >In the Office’s view, training a generative AI foundation model on a large and diverse dataset will often be transformative. The process converts a massive collection of training examples into a statistical model that can generate a wide range of outputs across a diverse array of new situations. It is hard to compare individual works in the training data—for example, copies of The Big Sleep in various languages—with a resulting language model capable of translating emails, correcting grammar, or answering natural language questions about 20th-century literature, without perceiving a transformation. https://www.copyright.gov/ai/Copyright-and-Artificial-Intelligence-Part-3-Generative-AI-Training-Report-Pre-Publication-Version.pdf You can read the whole doc. The part above is cherry picked. I haven't read through the whole thing but at a glance, the doc basically explains how it depends. If the model is trained specifically to output one piece content, it wouldn't be acceptable. The waters are muddy but holy fuck does taking the copyright juggernauts side sound bloody stupid.
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          • ? Guest
            Alrighty, so generative AI works by giving it training data and it transforms that data and then generates something based on a prompt and how that prompt is related to the training data it has. That's not functionally different from how commissioned human artists work. They train on publicly available works, their brain transforms and stores that data and uses it to generate a work based on a prompt. They even often directly use a reference work to generate their own without permission from the original artist. Like I said, there are tons of valid criticisms against Gen AI, but this criticism just boils down to "AI bad because it's not a human exploiting other's work."
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            Guest
            wrote last edited by
            #36
            GenAI is a glorified Markov Chain. Nothing more. It is a stochastic parrot. It does not think, it is not capable of creating novel new works, and it is incapable of the emotion necessary to be expressive. All it can do is ingest content and replicate it. This is not the same as a human seeing someone’s work and being inspired by it to create something uniquely their own in response.
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            • Rikudou_SageR Rikudou_Sage
              The anti AI crowd is getting crazy. Everyone uses it during development. It's a tool for fuck's sake, what's next? Banning designers from using Photoshop because using it is faster and thus taking jobs from multiple artists who would have to be employed otherwise?
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              Guest
              wrote last edited by
              #37
              “Everyone uses it” is just such a dumb argument. I don’t use it, I’ve never committed any code written by genAI. My colleagues don’t use it. Many, many people choose not to use it.
              Rikudou_SageR 1 Reply Last reply
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              • ? Guest
                GenAI is a glorified Markov Chain. Nothing more. It is a stochastic parrot. It does not think, it is not capable of creating novel new works, and it is incapable of the emotion necessary to be expressive. All it can do is ingest content and replicate it. This is not the same as a human seeing someone’s work and being inspired by it to create something uniquely their own in response.
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                Guest
                wrote last edited by
                #38
                I never claimed that Gen AI has consciousness, or that what they produce has emotions behind it, so I'm not sure why you're focusing on that. I'm specifically talking about the argument that AI is bad because trains on copyrighted material without consent from the artist, which is functionally no different than humans doing the exact same thing. This isn't me defending AI, this is me saying this one specific argument against it is stupid.
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                • ? Guest
                  I never claimed that Gen AI has consciousness, or that what they produce has emotions behind it, so I'm not sure why you're focusing on that. I'm specifically talking about the argument that AI is bad because trains on copyrighted material without consent from the artist, which is functionally no different than humans doing the exact same thing. This isn't me defending AI, this is me saying this one specific argument against it is stupid.
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                  Guest
                  wrote last edited by
                  #39
                  My entire post was a rebuttal of the “functionally no different than humans doing the same thing”. Humans take inspiration and use it to express themselves uniquely, genAI just steals and replicates. They are in no way “doing the exact same thing”.
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                  • ? Guest
                    My entire post was a rebuttal of the “functionally no different than humans doing the same thing”. Humans take inspiration and use it to express themselves uniquely, genAI just steals and replicates. They are in no way “doing the exact same thing”.
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                    Guest
                    wrote last edited by
                    #40
                    So your entire argument is semantics. Gen AI does more than just replicating existing works. You're not going to get the same result with the same prompt; each result will be unique. And I'd argue that the person writing the prompt is the one providing the inspiration to get the software to express what's in their head.
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                    • ? Guest
                      I feel there is nutjobs on both sides tbh.
                      PikaP This user is from outside of this forum
                      PikaP This user is from outside of this forum
                      Pika
                      wrote last edited by
                      #41
                      You are 1000% correct. I've been yelled at/criticized a few times by people who clearly can't differentiate between the types of "ai".
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                      • ? Guest
                        You can always tell the people with no artistic talent because they don't understand how AI is different than digital art software like PhotoShop. And they seem to think that artists should just accept having their life's work stolen and vomited up as slop. Fuck anyone who thinks like this. They think they are entitled to my creativity without doing any of the work.  "Everyone is doing it." The absolute degeneration of morality in this era is mind boggling. Have no morals, seek only profit. The fact that so many people cannot take a stand for integrity because of perceived pragmatism is sickening.  I hope anyone that thinks like this gets the AI slop filled hell they deserve. And I hope their careers are the next to be axed and replaced by the plagiarism machines.
                        shani66@ani.socialS This user is from outside of this forum
                        shani66@ani.socialS This user is from outside of this forum
                        shani66@ani.social
                        wrote last edited by
                        #42
                        The worst are those people that think they are artists because they typed in a prompt. It's delusional!
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                        • N nanoook@sh.itjust.works
                          This post did not contain any content.
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                          Guest
                          wrote last edited by
                          #43
                          Just to point out, LLMs are genAI. Lots of code editors provide code suggestions similar to autocorrect/text suggestions using AI. Strictly I doubt any game is made without AI. Not to say it can't be deliberately avoided, but given the lack of opposition to GPT and LLMs I don't see it being considered for avoidance in the same way as art. So Awards with constraints on "any AI usage in development" probably disqualifies most modern games.
                          ? ? ? ? 4 Replies Last reply
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                          • ? Guest
                            “Everyone uses it” is just such a dumb argument. I don’t use it, I’ve never committed any code written by genAI. My colleagues don’t use it. Many, many people choose not to use it.
                            Rikudou_SageR This user is from outside of this forum
                            Rikudou_SageR This user is from outside of this forum
                            Rikudou_Sage
                            wrote last edited by
                            #44
                            I didn't mean it in the literal sense but if it makes you happy, we can pretend that whenever someone says "everyone" they mean it literally.
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                            • ? Guest
                              An unethically developed tool that's burning the planet faster with the ultimate goal of starving the working class out of society. Inb4 alarmism lol tell me the fucking lie if you can.
                              Rikudou_SageR This user is from outside of this forum
                              Rikudou_SageR This user is from outside of this forum
                              Rikudou_Sage
                              wrote last edited by
                              #45
                              Dude, go touch grass, please. This is embarrassing.
                              ? ? 2 Replies Last reply
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                              • I icytoes@sh.itjust.works
                                Not everyone, and it probably multiplies review time 10 fold. Makes maintenance horrible. It doesn't save time, just moves it and makes devs dumber and unable to justify coding choices the AI generates.
                                Rikudou_SageR This user is from outside of this forum
                                Rikudou_SageR This user is from outside of this forum
                                Rikudou_Sage
                                wrote last edited by
                                #46
                                I mean, it's a tool. You can use a hammer to smash someone's skull in or you can use it to put some nail on a wall. If you see it used like that, it's shitty developers, the AI is not to blame. Don't get me wrong, I do have coworkers who use it like this and it sucks. One literally told to next time tell Copilot directly what to fix when I'm doing a review. But overall it helps if you know how and most importantly when to use it.
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                                • ? Guest
                                  Have you seen the pro-AI crowd? The most insane people currently in the tech world.
                                  Rikudou_SageR This user is from outside of this forum
                                  Rikudou_SageR This user is from outside of this forum
                                  Rikudou_Sage
                                  wrote last edited by
                                  #47
                                  I did and you're right. That's why I'm firmly in the "it's just a fucking tool" gang. Both people who treat it like a messiah and those who treat it like the worst thing ever seem pretty much insane to me.
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                                  • ? Guest
                                    You can always tell the people with no artistic talent because they don't understand how AI is different than digital art software like PhotoShop. And they seem to think that artists should just accept having their life's work stolen and vomited up as slop. Fuck anyone who thinks like this. They think they are entitled to my creativity without doing any of the work.  "Everyone is doing it." The absolute degeneration of morality in this era is mind boggling. Have no morals, seek only profit. The fact that so many people cannot take a stand for integrity because of perceived pragmatism is sickening.  I hope anyone that thinks like this gets the AI slop filled hell they deserve. And I hope their careers are the next to be axed and replaced by the plagiarism machines.
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                                    Guest
                                    wrote last edited by
                                    #48
                                    Yeah the AI slop hell that gives us terrible slop like expedition 33. Shudder at the thought
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                                    • ? Guest
                                      Just to point out, LLMs are genAI. Lots of code editors provide code suggestions similar to autocorrect/text suggestions using AI. Strictly I doubt any game is made without AI. Not to say it can't be deliberately avoided, but given the lack of opposition to GPT and LLMs I don't see it being considered for avoidance in the same way as art. So Awards with constraints on "any AI usage in development" probably disqualifies most modern games.
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                                      Guest
                                      wrote last edited by
                                      #49
                                      ![](https://lemmy.today/pictrs/image/7390fcbe-db24-4ca1-9c05-237f0ada1ddf.webp)
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                                      • I iamthetot@sh.itjust.works
                                        I'm in an entirely different industry than the topic at hand here, but my boss is really keen on ChatGPT and whatnot. Every problem that comes up, he's like "have you asked AI yet?" We have very expensive machines, which are maintained (ideally) by people who literally go to school to learn how to. We had an issue with a machine the other day and the same ol' question came up, "have you asked AI yet?" He took a photo of the alarm screen and fed it to ChatGPT. It spit out a huge reply and he forwarded it to me and told me to try it out. Literally the first troubleshooting step ChatGPT gave was nonsense and did not apply to our specific machine and our specific set-up and our specific use-case.
                                        I This user is from outside of this forum
                                        I This user is from outside of this forum
                                        icytoes@sh.itjust.works
                                        wrote last edited by
                                        #50
                                        "I will be investigating this shortly." That way, you don't have to commit to AI and can distance a bit from the micromanagement. If he persists. "I have a number of avenues I'd like to go down and will update on progress tomorrow". Though I'd be tempted to flippant, "if you're feeling confident to pick it up, I'm happy to review it". If they hesitate, " that's OK, I'll go through the process. Standups should be quick. Any progress, any issues, what you're focussing on. Otherwise you waste everyone's time. Any messages I'll ignore until I have 5 mins. Micromanagement environments are not worth it.
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                                        • ? Guest
                                          Just to point out, LLMs are genAI. Lots of code editors provide code suggestions similar to autocorrect/text suggestions using AI. Strictly I doubt any game is made without AI. Not to say it can't be deliberately avoided, but given the lack of opposition to GPT and LLMs I don't see it being considered for avoidance in the same way as art. So Awards with constraints on "any AI usage in development" probably disqualifies most modern games.
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                                          wrote last edited by
                                          #51
                                          Code analysis and suggestion tools in many professional IDEs are not powered by LLMs, in the IDEs I use, there's an available LLM that I've disabled the plugin for (and never paid for so it did nothing anyways). LLMs are simply too slow for the kind of code completion and recommendation algorithms used by IDEs and so using them is *not* "using genAI"
                                          theneverfox@pawb.socialT 1 Reply Last reply
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