"The Fall of Modern Literature"
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1. When comparing works of the past with what is made today nearly always there has been an increase in both volume and diversity. Today we have MORE music, more books, more art, most of it isn't very good.
2. We tend to compare what survived from the past, the most enduring and best work with the average work of today. (Architecture and furniture do this often.)
3. Related to #2 what is popular now, may not be what ends up defining the era when we look back.
4. Leave them kids alone.
@futurebird "kids these days don't have the survivorship bias that we do" is not the flex they think it is
I shake my head at the name "the greatest generation", because they defeated the Nazis and the imperial hegemony, without noticing the absolute fuckton of Nazis and imperialists in that selfsame generation.
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"The Fall of Modern Literature"
I encountered this phrase in the context of someone complaining about fan fiction. But, you can find this sort of notion about many of the arts: it could be "the decline of hip hop" or maybe "the decline of TV series" or just "the terrible state of the modern teen"
Or if you find those absurd what about "the decline in manufacturing quality" ?
Ah. Maybe that one has a point?
These pro-nostalgia arguments may vary in validity but they face common hurdles.
@futurebird Oh, i know that one, it's the "Rock is dead, kid today don't listen or make good music like we had twenty years ago".
I usually take it as "I stopped listening to new music twenty years ago and have no idea what incredible things and bands happened in rock since then" ^^
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@futurebird Oh, i know that one, it's the "Rock is dead, kid today don't listen or make good music like we had twenty years ago".
I usually take it as "I stopped listening to new music twenty years ago and have no idea what incredible things and bands happened in rock since then" ^^
@futurebird (of course, "rock" here can be replaced by almost any style ^^)
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@futurebird although I do feel like "the decline of TV" might be accurate because in most places where someone might have been watching TV they could just be watching videos on an internet connection and have more choice over what they watch.
It's the same as how most people don't drive carriages pulled by horses; cars provide the same effect, but more convenient (because you can feed a car with a tube and it poops a gas)
@ben @futurebird "Decline of TV" if you mean actual broadcast/cable rather than writing of shows is a platform enshittification feedback loop. People who don't approve of it shifting to brain rotting right wing drivel and who aren't stuck in their habits move to better media, leaving behind only the worst audiences and making a financial incentive to dig in further on top of the political incentive. Similar thing happened a long time ago with AM talk radio then radio in general (Clear Channel).
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@ben @futurebird "Decline of TV" if you mean actual broadcast/cable rather than writing of shows is a platform enshittification feedback loop. People who don't approve of it shifting to brain rotting right wing drivel and who aren't stuck in their habits move to better media, leaving behind only the worst audiences and making a financial incentive to dig in further on top of the political incentive. Similar thing happened a long time ago with AM talk radio then radio in general (Clear Channel).
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@futurebird @dalias methods die as more convenient methods become available
people aren't using telegraph machines or using modems to dial up a BBS anymore, but we're still talking to each other over long distances by writing very short letters
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There is some interaction between these common place and comforting falsies:
* More history keeps happening the closer you get to the present.
* The Decline of ...."
These are based in similar statistical issues. It's all sampling errors.
@futurebird I said something like this (i.e., that it's sampling errors) when Ray Kurzweil came to give an author talk at Google about _The Singularity Is Near_. He was silent for about a minute. It was pretty clear this possibility had never occurred to him before. Then he said something that didn't address my question, and moved on.
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@futurebird I said something like this (i.e., that it's sampling errors) when Ray Kurzweil came to give an author talk at Google about _The Singularity Is Near_. He was silent for about a minute. It was pretty clear this possibility had never occurred to him before. Then he said something that didn't address my question, and moved on.
@RuchiraSDatta @futurebird
You mean it took him a whole minute to remember that he's doing it for the investments and reality doesn't matter?! -
@futurebird I said something like this (i.e., that it's sampling errors) when Ray Kurzweil came to give an author talk at Google about _The Singularity Is Near_. He was silent for about a minute. It was pretty clear this possibility had never occurred to him before. Then he said something that didn't address my question, and moved on.
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@futurebird Did someone point out to the person that Dante’s Inferno is fan fiction on the Bible fandom?
The Bible flood story is fanfic on the story of Uta-napishtim.
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@futurebird @dalias methods die as more convenient methods become available
people aren't using telegraph machines or using modems to dial up a BBS anymore, but we're still talking to each other over long distances by writing very short letters
@ben @futurebird @dalias i guess radio dramas were mainly popular because radios were a thing most households had, and less because people preferred the medium
and unlike other radio programs, radio plays don’t sound like something you’d just play in the background as you did something else (which is the main place radio is still relevant today, i think)
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@ben @futurebird @dalias i guess radio dramas were mainly popular because radios were a thing most households had, and less because people preferred the medium
and unlike other radio programs, radio plays don’t sound like something you’d just play in the background as you did something else (which is the main place radio is still relevant today, i think)
@charlotte @dalias @futurebird radio plays are a pretty common method of video game storytelling nowadays because digital storage is cheap so they can afford to put all those voice lines in and not having to place the characters in the game world lets you avoid a lot of design problems
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1. When comparing works of the past with what is made today nearly always there has been an increase in both volume and diversity. Today we have MORE music, more books, more art, most of it isn't very good.
2. We tend to compare what survived from the past, the most enduring and best work with the average work of today. (Architecture and furniture do this often.)
3. Related to #2 what is popular now, may not be what ends up defining the era when we look back.
4. Leave them kids alone.
@futurebird
> Leave them kids alone.As long as they get off my lawn!
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@futurebird @dalias @ben alive and well, and probably more now than there ever was…
The Truth
Listen to The Truth's The Truth podcast with Jonathan Mitchell on Apple Podcasts.
Apple Podcasts (podcasts.apple.com)
@Jmj @futurebird @ben Yeah the same art forms still exist, just not still subject to the same channel gatekeepers.
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1. When comparing works of the past with what is made today nearly always there has been an increase in both volume and diversity. Today we have MORE music, more books, more art, most of it isn't very good.
2. We tend to compare what survived from the past, the most enduring and best work with the average work of today. (Architecture and furniture do this often.)
3. Related to #2 what is popular now, may not be what ends up defining the era when we look back.
4. Leave them kids alone.
@futurebird
Sort of survivors' bias. Reading Pepys diaries it seems he went to the theatre at least once a week, he names the plays and usually comments on them. Many he thought badly written or poorly done. Shakespeare, Marlow and few others survive most of the rest disappeared. -
@RuchiraSDatta @futurebird
You mean it took him a whole minute to remember that he's doing it for the investments and reality doesn't matter?!@NicholasLaney @RuchiraSDatta @futurebird Kurzweil always struck me as a true believer in the Singularity cult, although his financial success is no doubt a source of self-assurance.
Of course, pure grifters often drink their own Flavor-Aid and end up true believers (viz L Ron Hubbard), so they all end up indistinguishable in the end.
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"The Fall of Modern Literature"
I encountered this phrase in the context of someone complaining about fan fiction. But, you can find this sort of notion about many of the arts: it could be "the decline of hip hop" or maybe "the decline of TV series" or just "the terrible state of the modern teen"
Or if you find those absurd what about "the decline in manufacturing quality" ?
Ah. Maybe that one has a point?
These pro-nostalgia arguments may vary in validity but they face common hurdles.
@futurebird wait, hip hop just got started, how can it be in decline already?
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@futurebird wait, hip hop just got started, how can it be in decline already?
People have been saying "hip hop is dead" for 25 years!
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F myrmepropagandist shared this topic
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People have been saying "hip hop is dead" for 25 years!
But then I think "the fall of literature" is like at least 400 years in? or maybe 1000?
I wonder if people of the stone age shook their head at the "decline in cave drawing" and "the fall of the story by the fire"
