My wife picked up a zine that is advertising the fediverse.
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@deborahh @pluralistic lo it's three quid for four pages
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@internetsdairy whats the proplem with graphix? looks good / functional to me
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@internetsdairy it’s so cool seeing little ads like this, hope that I can see more of these pop in irl in the future
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@internetsdairy @gbargoud I remember this typeface/font from early 1980s computer magazines and even local (Czech) education toolkit for children, called "Logitronic"
But on the other hand, such typeface would be rarely used by real punk movement of 1980s... today, it just looks like "generic retro".On the other hand, the punk aesthetics was always perfect antithesis of good and accessible graphics design. Level of obfuscation was second only to the incomprehensible psychedelic banners of hippie era...
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@internetsdairy @gbargoud I remember this typeface/font from early 1980s computer magazines and even local (Czech) education toolkit for children, called "Logitronic"
But on the other hand, such typeface would be rarely used by real punk movement of 1980s... today, it just looks like "generic retro".On the other hand, the punk aesthetics was always perfect antithesis of good and accessible graphics design. Level of obfuscation was second only to the incomprehensible psychedelic banners of hippie era...
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@internetsdairy and is it even real URL?
Anyway, this is what punk aesthetics is. If you don't like it, you probably don't want to federate with punk instances
It was never about being absolutely inclusive - it was about self-expression, creativity, whatever... and well, for someone, who remember the 1980s aesthetics, this crossover style means really lot... because it mixes exactly the stuff, which would not be mixed in 1980s this way. The message is emotion, in this case, I think. Not the message itself.
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@internetsdairy and is it even real URL?
Anyway, this is what punk aesthetics is. If you don't like it, you probably don't want to federate with punk instances
It was never about being absolutely inclusive - it was about self-expression, creativity, whatever... and well, for someone, who remember the 1980s aesthetics, this crossover style means really lot... because it mixes exactly the stuff, which would not be mixed in 1980s this way. The message is emotion, in this case, I think. Not the message itself.
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@internetsdairy ok, but you can say the same about most artistic movements of the past
It is image. You published it with ALT text for image, which made it accessible... for people, who are in the Fedi already, ok. But this was not intended for people, who are in the Fedi, but for people, who like the visual style of given fanzine. Because most of the read it exactly because of the nostalgic 1980s-1980s underground visual style...
If Fediverse gets promoted in an e-zine printed in Braille, the URL will be written in Braille. Not all target groups are created equal. The very idea of subculture is idea of certain exclusive club, in fact. Because the exclusivity created kind of safe space, of different kind, than what is needed today, but the result was generally the same, as Fediverse.
It looks like allpunxpleaseleavemeta.com is actually not an URL! So complaining about non-URL being non-readable is well... err... er... you are punk-rocker, now!
There are retrocomputing and permacomputing people here in Fedi, and sure you would not complain that their beloved 8bits don't support IPv6 (or whatever other hype of last 50 years).
Anyway, this federation of reply-guys mostly and I hope my punksplaining is not too much
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@internetsdairy ok, but you can say the same about most artistic movements of the past
It is image. You published it with ALT text for image, which made it accessible... for people, who are in the Fedi already, ok. But this was not intended for people, who are in the Fedi, but for people, who like the visual style of given fanzine. Because most of the read it exactly because of the nostalgic 1980s-1980s underground visual style...
If Fediverse gets promoted in an e-zine printed in Braille, the URL will be written in Braille. Not all target groups are created equal. The very idea of subculture is idea of certain exclusive club, in fact. Because the exclusivity created kind of safe space, of different kind, than what is needed today, but the result was generally the same, as Fediverse.
It looks like allpunxpleaseleavemeta.com is actually not an URL! So complaining about non-URL being non-readable is well... err... er... you are punk-rocker, now!
There are retrocomputing and permacomputing people here in Fedi, and sure you would not complain that their beloved 8bits don't support IPv6 (or whatever other hype of last 50 years).
Anyway, this federation of reply-guys mostly and I hope my punksplaining is not too much
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@gbargoud ok, but this means, that there is typo in the ALT text! I removed the extra dot, of course, there is really "ks" and not "x".
So really... adding misleading ALT text to image is very un-fedivers-ish, I am afraid
Well, myself I am of course guilty of adding slightly brief and unhelpful ALT texts, because I refuse to generate them using AI, but at least, I don't miss-spell URLs in my ALT text, and well, err, I am not really sure, how elderly former punk-rock fan is really expected to express anger in his 50's, but ... this is not even proper fascist regime, or something like this! -
@internetsdairy that’s right! silicon valley pretends to be the punks, while dancing the Mussolini. We don’t dance the Mussolini here!
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@internetsdairy that’s seriously cool.
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@gbargoud ok, but this means, that there is typo in the ALT text! I removed the extra dot, of course, there is really "ks" and not "x".
So really... adding misleading ALT text to image is very un-fedivers-ish, I am afraid
Well, myself I am of course guilty of adding slightly brief and unhelpful ALT texts, because I refuse to generate them using AI, but at least, I don't miss-spell URLs in my ALT text, and well, err, I am not really sure, how elderly former punk-rock fan is really expected to express anger in his 50's, but ... this is not even proper fascist regime, or something like this!Yes it was definitely on purpose and not a mistake because the font is hard to read
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@gbargoud ok, but this means, that there is typo in the ALT text! I removed the extra dot, of course, there is really "ks" and not "x".
So really... adding misleading ALT text to image is very un-fedivers-ish, I am afraid
Well, myself I am of course guilty of adding slightly brief and unhelpful ALT texts, because I refuse to generate them using AI, but at least, I don't miss-spell URLs in my ALT text, and well, err, I am not really sure, how elderly former punk-rock fan is really expected to express anger in his 50's, but ... this is not even proper fascist regime, or something like this! -
@internetsdairy ok, but you can say the same about most artistic movements of the past
It is image. You published it with ALT text for image, which made it accessible... for people, who are in the Fedi already, ok. But this was not intended for people, who are in the Fedi, but for people, who like the visual style of given fanzine. Because most of the read it exactly because of the nostalgic 1980s-1980s underground visual style...
If Fediverse gets promoted in an e-zine printed in Braille, the URL will be written in Braille. Not all target groups are created equal. The very idea of subculture is idea of certain exclusive club, in fact. Because the exclusivity created kind of safe space, of different kind, than what is needed today, but the result was generally the same, as Fediverse.
It looks like allpunxpleaseleavemeta.com is actually not an URL! So complaining about non-URL being non-readable is well... err... er... you are punk-rocker, now!
There are retrocomputing and permacomputing people here in Fedi, and sure you would not complain that their beloved 8bits don't support IPv6 (or whatever other hype of last 50 years).
Anyway, this federation of reply-guys mostly and I hope my punksplaining is not too much
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@internetsdairy well, sorry for joking about it, but the punk movement, as far as I remember, was in a way really opposite of later inclusive movements with clear political message. It was sometimes actually pretty messy and sometimes silly or stupid... it was years before organized stupidity became the signature of the populist right-wing.
Just to put the things in the context: British punks of course hated Margaret Thatcher, because, well, it was a must! But at least, she was first woman PM in history and at the same time, warning against global warming was conservative thing! it was years before conservatives decided, that it is not cool (well, literally) and the they should rather deny it. So while there could be general ecological and anti-consumerist message in original punk movement, they would talk little about climate change (because it was not yet a thing, just a theory, understood mostly by nerds, but not by everyday trendy nerds, who do some coding - but just those really nerdy nerds) and after all, if your message is "no future", then why care about future? but 80s conservatives would gladly use climate change threat to greenwash nuclear power (renewables were not a thing)... and as punk, you would be anti-nuclear, of course...
Complicated! We need them in Fediverse, anyway
But we now live in their no-future of 1980s, anyway... -
@internetsdairy well, sorry for joking about it, but the punk movement, as far as I remember, was in a way really opposite of later inclusive movements with clear political message. It was sometimes actually pretty messy and sometimes silly or stupid... it was years before organized stupidity became the signature of the populist right-wing.
Just to put the things in the context: British punks of course hated Margaret Thatcher, because, well, it was a must! But at least, she was first woman PM in history and at the same time, warning against global warming was conservative thing! it was years before conservatives decided, that it is not cool (well, literally) and the they should rather deny it. So while there could be general ecological and anti-consumerist message in original punk movement, they would talk little about climate change (because it was not yet a thing, just a theory, understood mostly by nerds, but not by everyday trendy nerds, who do some coding - but just those really nerdy nerds) and after all, if your message is "no future", then why care about future? but 80s conservatives would gladly use climate change threat to greenwash nuclear power (renewables were not a thing)... and as punk, you would be anti-nuclear, of course...
Complicated! We need them in Fediverse, anyway
But we now live in their no-future of 1980s, anyway... -
@internetsdairy someone read the fedizine it seems (https://anarchistnews.org/content/fedizine)
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@internetsdairy and again... punk culture is anarchic and kind of self-sabotaging.
If punk aesthetics consists of teared jeans, t-shirts, stockings and so on, what do you exactly expect their visual style to look like?
it was partially anti-design movement.. if you don't have to professional design tools, why not try opposite and try to make it look as amateur as possible?I am probably growing old, if I have to explain this to someone
When I was young, there were no "generations", like genZ, Milenials, alfa, and so on. But there were sub-cultures. Not all subcultures were real, some where quite marginal, but there were certain "main" subcultures, not entirely identical with "generations", and those subcultures were generally associated not only with music, but also with aesthetics, lifestyle, political attitudes, and so on.So if punks were self-destructive, self-sabotaging, it is quite obvious, that their visual design would be hard or nearly impossible to read, that some invention may be required to solve the puzzles, etc. It is not bug, it is feature. It is their style. They like it this way.
Telling punks they need nice visual style would be kind of ... insulting. Like telling vegans they should eat more meat? But maybe just hilariously funny. Because they want you to be mad about their "art", of course.
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