@moira @Photo55

I sometimes do a little assembly about ants for kids, naturally I like everything to be correct, so I've been careful for years to always say "where do ants go in winter? they do something like hibernation but since they are insects and not warm-blooded we call it diapause."

Now I need to figure out what to say.

I'd rather just say "ants hibernate in winter" because they do it for the same reason as a bear or mouse, and it's similar in many ways.

But people get mad.

@moira @Photo55

I sometimes do a little assembly about ants for kids, naturally I like everything to be correct, so I've been careful for years to always say "where do ants go in winter? they do something like hibernation but since they are insects and not warm-blooded we call it diapause."

Now I need to figure out what to say.

I'd rather just say "ants hibernate in winter" because they do it for the same reason as a bear or mouse, and it's similar in many ways.

But people get mad.

@futurebird @moira @Photo55

Well, maybe ant *nests* hibernate. I'd bet money that, like honeybee nests, they are endothermic.

@futurebird @moira @Photo55

Well, maybe ant *nests* hibernate. I'd bet money that, like honeybee nests, they are endothermic.

@lemgandi @moira @Photo55

I don't know about every ant species, but carpenter ants were tested to see if they warmed their nest at all and they do not.

They are more concerned with humidity it seems.

@futurebird @moira @Photo55 Ah, very cool. I was thinking more in terms of S. Invicta. Probly bigger biomass, even in winter.

@futurebird @moira @Photo55 Ah, very cool. I was thinking more in terms of S. Invicta. Probly bigger biomass, even in winter.

@futurebird I still want to live in the universe where "AI" meant "Wolfram Alpha with an absurd budget" and not "MegaHAL with an absurd budget"

@moira @Photo55

Kids know the concept of "hibernation" it's helpful to extend it to explain what ants an other insect that overwinter are doing.

Of course some ants just try to come inside your house for winter, but that's another matter.

@mcc @futurebird and they didn't even give us HAL

@IngaLovinde @futurebird (MegaHAL was an open source chatbot program from around the year 2000 that, when given text input, added it to a markov chain text model and generated "conversational" responses. Back in the day I hooked it up to both IRC and AOL Instant Messenger, and I actually witnessed it passing the Turing Test, not because MegaHAL was smart, but because people are very prone to seeing the work of minds in random data.)

@lemgandi @moira @Photo55

Totally gotta test more species.

@Photo55

I don't know anymore.
diapause seems like the most general term? so everything that hibernates is in diapause.

I need an Euler diagram STAT of:

hibernation
estivation (or aestivation?)
diapause
dormancy
brumation
napping
torpor

With the differences and various example animals.

(If AI did what it claimed this would be a great task to ask from AI, but, in fact, this is the kind of thing LLMs are the worst at: making categorizations logically... and not making up animals)

@futurebird @Photo55 I can contribute a little.

Brumation is what reptiles and amphibians do. It's distinct from mammalian hibernation in several ways (and you probably know a lot more about invertebrate diapause than I do).

During brumation, reptiles and amphibians don't sleep all the time - they dramatically drop their metabolic rate, but will sometimes move around a bit. Unlike hibernating mammals, they need to drink water. Also unlike mammalian hibernation, brumating animals will usually fast for a week or two before entering brumation (rather than stuffing themselves like mammals do) - this is to make sure that there is nothing left in the gut that could start rotting while the metabolism is slowed. They burn glycogen and fat while brumating, but *very* little.

A couple anecdotal observations: I weighed Igor - my male Northern blue-tongue skink - before and after his first brumation in my care; he lost 7 grams (he weighed just under a kilo at the time). *Every* brumating reptile I've seen seems to have their brain running on a severely limited autopilot while it's going on: They know how to get water and getting back in the cave or box they're hiding in, but that's about it. I can very easily tell when Igor is just coming out for water and when winter's over by his gaze alone: When he's just coming out for water he looks "dim", when he's done brumating he makes eye contact, watches what's going on and looks much more like "the lights are on" in there.

@datarama @futurebird @Photo55 Ah! Thank you! Now I can put a sign on my door as necessary which says 'brumating'. I definitely have weeks like that!

@futurebird @Photo55 I can contribute a little.

Brumation is what reptiles and amphibians do. It's distinct from mammalian hibernation in several ways (and you probably know a lot more about invertebrate diapause than I do).

During brumation, reptiles and amphibians don't sleep all the time - they dramatically drop their metabolic rate, but will sometimes move around a bit. Unlike hibernating mammals, they need to drink water. Also unlike mammalian hibernation, brumating animals will usually fast for a week or two before entering brumation (rather than stuffing themselves like mammals do) - this is to make sure that there is nothing left in the gut that could start rotting while the metabolism is slowed. They burn glycogen and fat while brumating, but *very* little.

A couple anecdotal observations: I weighed Igor - my male Northern blue-tongue skink - before and after his first brumation in my care; he lost 7 grams (he weighed just under a kilo at the time). *Every* brumating reptile I've seen seems to have their brain running on a severely limited autopilot while it's going on: They know how to get water and getting back in the cave or box they're hiding in, but that's about it. I can very easily tell when Igor is just coming out for water and when winter's over by his gaze alone: When he's just coming out for water he looks "dim", when he's done brumating he makes eye contact, watches what's going on and looks much more like "the lights are on" in there.

@datarama @futurebird
It isn't any specialism of mine, but I gathered at least some hibernating placentals will wake up a bit on a warm day in winter, whether they go and get a sip of water I don't know.

@Photo55

I don't know anymore.
diapause seems like the most general term? so everything that hibernates is in diapause.

I need an Euler diagram STAT of:

hibernation
estivation (or aestivation?)
diapause
dormancy
brumation
napping
torpor

With the differences and various example animals.

(If AI did what it claimed this would be a great task to ask from AI, but, in fact, this is the kind of thing LLMs are the worst at: making categorizations logically... and not making up animals)

Maybe just what you just said? “Ants do something like hibernation”. @moira @Photo55 @futurebird

@futurebird @lemgandi @moira @Photo55

S. invicta is native to tropical and subtropical parts of S. America, so I'd be surprised if their nests maintain substantial internal heat. It seems more likely their nests would evolve to get rid of heat.