@jerry supports a number of payment processors for funding infosec.exchange

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I mean, every credit card processor is their own brands of bad. The "least bad" for US donations IMO is Zelle, since it's basically just a bank to bank money transfer though it requires your bank supporting it, many of them don't allow for a recurring payment, and it requires that your bank support it. But at least the fees are just payed for by the banks, not adding an extra payment to visa / MasterCard / random fin tech or payment platform etc.

@futurebird

@futurebird
Yeah, kinda the same here. No personal.interest in it, but I had a dayjob that years ago started as a cryptocoin scam and accidentally also did something useful, but while it was still trying to be a cryptocoin company I had to use Ethereum for some dev and testing. After a couple years the $5 I'd put into ETH was worth $15 or so, but again I had to use Coinbase to turn it back into dollars. Now I have to do tax paperwork every year on a historic $7 "profit" apparently forever?

@billiglarper @futurebird
In Canada we have Interac email transfers. To and from any (?) Canadian bank account, low or no fee (some small banks still charge $5, I think?), but still subject to opinions of the 6 apex banks so have to be careful about sex and drugs and such.

@silvermoon82 @billiglarper

That is so civilized. Meanwhile in the US they just eliminated the free electronic way to do your taxes.

Not to save money. So that you either have to do the form by hand OR pay one of the many "services" to do your taxes.

Why doesn't that make more people as angry as it makes me? I suppose most people still use the services. And it's just $100 bucks or so, going to whoever and NOT the government.

@silvermoon82 @billiglarper

You don't have to just pay taxes. You have to pay the tax collector too.

@futurebird @silvermoon82 USDC is stable enough and Solana is maybe an OK solution.

Getting it in and out though, THAT is a huge problem in the USA. First, you have to use an exchange unless you want to find someone that'll trade money for coin (very possibly a criminal). They are all owned and run by terrible people. Then there's the KYC process, which is entirely automated by AI.

Could maybe partner to create a better USDC option for people. Something with real customer support and shit.

@futurebird

"Why doesn't that make more people as angry as it makes me?"

What are you going to do, if you support the idea of a state? Once you accept a state you accept that it can do whatever it wants, in practice, because the alternative is no state and you don't want that.

In this case it's like the state wants you to pay $100 in taxes to a state crony. So yes, historically all states are corrupt. It's a better use of your taxes than funding the military.

@crazyeddie @silvermoon82

Could this be a credit union service?

@richpuchalsky

Sometimes when the state does things people get angry about it. I don't see how this answers the question.

Are you saying it can't be changed? That isn't true. There is a great deal of inertia and other issues that compete for attention and time. But, there is a principle here:

There should not be third party fee for basic government services and interactions.

I am wondering if this value exists for many people.

@futurebird I have some ideas in my head about writing a self-hosted Discord equivalent. It’s just ideas at the moment, though; 0 lines of code.

@melivia

It's to tickle those kinds of ideas that I keep bringing this kind of thing up.

@futurebird @silvermoon82 @billiglarper not to upset you more but here in za for the last 3 years i haven't even done my returns. i get a notice from the tax man they're ready for review, i have a quick look, and then do nothing. a few days later the refund is in my bank account

@mensrea @silvermoon82 @billiglarper

There is *no reason* why it couldn't work this way in the US. Or rather there is no rational reason other than a deliberate ongoing pressure to make all government services and interactions terrible lest the people start liking anything about the process.

And the people who say "we need to privatize* it" are often behind the poor service, and deliberate Obfuscation.

*Think of the last time you were on hold. Are private companies "better"? No.

@futurebird @silvermoon82

I have thought GNU Taler could be interesting for payment handling.

GNU Taler - Taxable Anonymous Libre Electronic Resources

A payment system that makes privacy-friendly online transactions fast and easy.

(www.taler.net)

It's a system designed to provide a digital cash like protocol, in use it might actually be kind of like poker chips. It using a form of cryptography to implement it, but it's not a proof of work system like the right wing cryptocurrencies.

Customers would buy tokens from an issuer with some currency, be able to anonymously purchase items from vendors using those tokens, who then can deposit the tokens with a transaction log, and be able to redeem them for the original currency.

The developers have done some test deployments at an EU university and they've got some prototype django websites and android apps available.

I suspect the next actions are doing security review of the code, find a pool of people interested, and figure out governance and business organization issues.

I think doing modest purchases like the prices for I see for quick art commissions or donations (<$40) to a stream probably could be set up with a small business

But to really roll it out my guess would be to found a credit union, and then that could offer issuing taler tokens to it's community

Here's the NCUA documentation on founding a credit union, and they recommended figuring out your community and raising about $500,000 USD to be able to start.

Phase 1: Establishing a Proof of Concept

COMPLETE THESE ACTIVITIES FIRST The purpose of the Proof of Concept is to demonstrate that your concept for the new credit union is well thought-out and contains four elements that are critical to the success of the credit union. These areas are usually the greatest challenge for organizing groups to overcome. You should use the research you perform and the information you have gathered to define your PFCU as a basis for completing your Proof of Concept, demonstrating to the NCUA that your proposal is well thought-out and contains the four major elements crucial to success:

NCUA (ncua.gov)

@alienghic @silvermoon82

This is so cool! I've never even considered the concept of a local non-profit credit union ... you know not for old people. The focus should be digital payment independence.

I assume if you try to do this someone from Mastercard comes to your house and beats you up. But I just found my old bike lock and it is very heavy.

@alienghic @silvermoon82

I think key to making this work would be having many limits on size of accounts and to keep it local so you know who is in it.

And never lend any money.

hmmm

@futurebird @silvermoon82

I absolutely think something like my work campus's stored value card would be a great use case for Taler.

For a while we could deposit money on our ID cards and then spend it at stuff like the coffee shop or the library photocopiers.

I think that's a good low risk situation to experiment with Taler.

Also one their, demos included issuing a fictitious currency "Kudos" which you could spend on FOSS projects.

So I bet one could also make up an ARG game that uses fake currency issued via Taler as digital playing pieces, for a really low risk way of experimenting.