Is there a FOOSS self-hosted version of discord?
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Is there a #FOSS self-hosted version of discord?
What about something similar to twitch that does streaming?
One of the reasons twitch is popular is because it's easy to have your audience help support the cost of running your channel. So, systems for micropayment are also an area for possible future expansion.
Or are there technical hurdles or cost hurdles to building such things?
#OSS@futurebird I don't know about alternatives. But discord should be "easy" to replace.
The problem with twitch is the enormous bandwidth and computing power needed to distribute the stream all over the world in close to real time. Chat-interaction seems to bring many people to the platform. And that gets increasingly difficult the longer the delay between streamer and viewer becomes. Open P2P platforms start with an extreme disadvantage in that regard. -
@futurebird
For Twitch, there's Owncast, which aims to be a Federated personal streaming platform. I haven't used it myself (crippling social anxiety makes streaming a no-go) but I've heard mixed-to-good reviews, which is honestly pretty good for OSS.
Payments are a problem because any time you touch real money you're dealing with 8000lb gorillas (Visa, MasterCard, Thiel's PayPal, Canada's 6 banks, etc) or with bogus "money" you're dealing with Nazis and other crypto grifters.You can do crypto transfers with python, it's very code-able, but none of the coins are stable enough to make this viable. And, of course, how do you get money into and out of the system?
I do think the payment network problem is important for the alternative web. Using patreon or paypay isn't great.
What about partnering with a credit union?
The problem with money is as soon as you make systems that do anything with money you are swarmed by grifters and need to be perfect.
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You can do crypto transfers with python, it's very code-able, but none of the coins are stable enough to make this viable. And, of course, how do you get money into and out of the system?
I do think the payment network problem is important for the alternative web. Using patreon or paypay isn't great.
What about partnering with a credit union?
The problem with money is as soon as you make systems that do anything with money you are swarmed by grifters and need to be perfect.
But if we don't think about money all of these FOSS tools will remain toys for middle class people who don't mind spending a few of their own dimes on keeping them running. It's a barrier to entry. Can it be lowered or knocked down?
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You can do crypto transfers with python, it's very code-able, but none of the coins are stable enough to make this viable. And, of course, how do you get money into and out of the system?
I do think the payment network problem is important for the alternative web. Using patreon or paypay isn't great.
What about partnering with a credit union?
The problem with money is as soon as you make systems that do anything with money you are swarmed by grifters and need to be perfect.
When my mom became interested in bitcoin I decided to learn about it because the way that my mom works is if she wants to know about something she will get into it and you can do it with her... or she will do it on her own. I wanted to keep her safe.
So I learned how the whole thing works. I had some bitcoin left over from years ago and set up a wallet for her. We did transfers with my own code in terminal.
Fun mother-daughter bonding!
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When my mom became interested in bitcoin I decided to learn about it because the way that my mom works is if she wants to know about something she will get into it and you can do it with her... or she will do it on her own. I wanted to keep her safe.
So I learned how the whole thing works. I had some bitcoin left over from years ago and set up a wallet for her. We did transfers with my own code in terminal.
Fun mother-daughter bonding!
We had to use coinbase to get the money out and that annoyed me. The alternative was going on facebook and using shady "cash for bitcoin in person" groups. *shudder*
But I can see why people had utopian ideas about the technology.
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But if we don't think about money all of these FOSS tools will remain toys for middle class people who don't mind spending a few of their own dimes on keeping them running. It's a barrier to entry. Can it be lowered or knocked down?
@futurebird @silvermoon82 I've been trying to work out where GNU Taler sits in this zone: banks have KYC requirements which preclude some innovative stuff.
Maybe the trick would be to set up a fiscal edge node: i.e. a credit union which had the situational awareness and expertise to handle integrating and also working with free software people.
And that'd be a great hobby to do with all our free time and money! /s
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But if we don't think about money all of these FOSS tools will remain toys for middle class people who don't mind spending a few of their own dimes on keeping them running. It's a barrier to entry. Can it be lowered or knocked down?
#Wero might become the next best thing?
www.wero-wallet.eu
It's kinda Paypal done by European banks (
), without any fees.Not sure if it will be available internationally.
But the two major German coop banking groups are on board, so that might be as good as it gets from a "power to the people" perspective.
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Is there a #FOSS self-hosted version of discord?
What about something similar to twitch that does streaming?
One of the reasons twitch is popular is because it's easy to have your audience help support the cost of running your channel. So, systems for micropayment are also an area for possible future expansion.
Or are there technical hurdles or cost hurdles to building such things?
#OSS@jerry supports a number of payment processors for funding infosec.exchange
To help support the costs associated with running this instance, please consider donating. You can set up recurring donations here:
Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/infosecexchange
Ko-Fi: https://ko-fi.com/infosecexchange
Liberapay: https://liberapay.com/Infosec.exchange/
You can also support with a one-time donation using PayPal to "jerry@infosec.exchange".
I mean, every credit card processor is their own brands of bad. The "least bad" for US donations IMO is Zelle, since it's basically just a bank to bank money transfer though it requires your bank supporting it, many of them don't allow for a recurring payment, and it requires that your bank support it. But at least the fees are just payed for by the banks, not adding an extra payment to visa / MasterCard / random fin tech or payment platform etc.
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We had to use coinbase to get the money out and that annoyed me. The alternative was going on facebook and using shady "cash for bitcoin in person" groups. *shudder*
But I can see why people had utopian ideas about the technology.
@futurebird
Yeah, kinda the same here. No personal.interest in it, but I had a dayjob that years ago started as a cryptocoin scam and accidentally also did something useful, but while it was still trying to be a cryptocoin company I had to use Ethereum for some dev and testing. After a couple years the $5 I'd put into ETH was worth $15 or so, but again I had to use Coinbase to turn it back into dollars. Now I have to do tax paperwork every year on a historic $7 "profit" apparently forever? -
#Wero might become the next best thing?
www.wero-wallet.eu
It's kinda Paypal done by European banks (
), without any fees.Not sure if it will be available internationally.
But the two major German coop banking groups are on board, so that might be as good as it gets from a "power to the people" perspective.
@billiglarper @futurebird
In Canada we have Interac email transfers. To and from any (?) Canadian bank account, low or no fee (some small banks still charge $5, I think?), but still subject to opinions of the 6 apex banks so have to be careful about sex and drugs and such. -
@billiglarper @futurebird
In Canada we have Interac email transfers. To and from any (?) Canadian bank account, low or no fee (some small banks still charge $5, I think?), but still subject to opinions of the 6 apex banks so have to be careful about sex and drugs and such.That is so civilized. Meanwhile in the US they just eliminated the free electronic way to do your taxes.
Not to save money. So that you either have to do the form by hand OR pay one of the many "services" to do your taxes.
Why doesn't that make more people as angry as it makes me? I suppose most people still use the services. And it's just $100 bucks or so, going to whoever and NOT the government.
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That is so civilized. Meanwhile in the US they just eliminated the free electronic way to do your taxes.
Not to save money. So that you either have to do the form by hand OR pay one of the many "services" to do your taxes.
Why doesn't that make more people as angry as it makes me? I suppose most people still use the services. And it's just $100 bucks or so, going to whoever and NOT the government.
You don't have to just pay taxes. You have to pay the tax collector too.
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You can do crypto transfers with python, it's very code-able, but none of the coins are stable enough to make this viable. And, of course, how do you get money into and out of the system?
I do think the payment network problem is important for the alternative web. Using patreon or paypay isn't great.
What about partnering with a credit union?
The problem with money is as soon as you make systems that do anything with money you are swarmed by grifters and need to be perfect.
@futurebird @silvermoon82 USDC is stable enough and Solana is maybe an OK solution.
Getting it in and out though, THAT is a huge problem in the USA. First, you have to use an exchange unless you want to find someone that'll trade money for coin (very possibly a criminal). They are all owned and run by terrible people. Then there's the KYC process, which is entirely automated by AI.
Could maybe partner to create a better USDC option for people. Something with real customer support and shit.
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That is so civilized. Meanwhile in the US they just eliminated the free electronic way to do your taxes.
Not to save money. So that you either have to do the form by hand OR pay one of the many "services" to do your taxes.
Why doesn't that make more people as angry as it makes me? I suppose most people still use the services. And it's just $100 bucks or so, going to whoever and NOT the government.
"Why doesn't that make more people as angry as it makes me?"
What are you going to do, if you support the idea of a state? Once you accept a state you accept that it can do whatever it wants, in practice, because the alternative is no state and you don't want that.
In this case it's like the state wants you to pay $100 in taxes to a state crony. So yes, historically all states are corrupt. It's a better use of your taxes than funding the military.
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@futurebird @silvermoon82 USDC is stable enough and Solana is maybe an OK solution.
Getting it in and out though, THAT is a huge problem in the USA. First, you have to use an exchange unless you want to find someone that'll trade money for coin (very possibly a criminal). They are all owned and run by terrible people. Then there's the KYC process, which is entirely automated by AI.
Could maybe partner to create a better USDC option for people. Something with real customer support and shit.
Could this be a credit union service?
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"Why doesn't that make more people as angry as it makes me?"
What are you going to do, if you support the idea of a state? Once you accept a state you accept that it can do whatever it wants, in practice, because the alternative is no state and you don't want that.
In this case it's like the state wants you to pay $100 in taxes to a state crony. So yes, historically all states are corrupt. It's a better use of your taxes than funding the military.
Sometimes when the state does things people get angry about it. I don't see how this answers the question.
Are you saying it can't be changed? That isn't true. There is a great deal of inertia and other issues that compete for attention and time. But, there is a principle here:
There should not be third party fee for basic government services and interactions.
I am wondering if this value exists for many people.
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Is there a #FOSS self-hosted version of discord?
What about something similar to twitch that does streaming?
One of the reasons twitch is popular is because it's easy to have your audience help support the cost of running your channel. So, systems for micropayment are also an area for possible future expansion.
Or are there technical hurdles or cost hurdles to building such things?
#OSS@futurebird I have some ideas in my head about writing a self-hosted Discord equivalent. Itโs just ideas at the moment, though; 0 lines of code.
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@futurebird I have some ideas in my head about writing a self-hosted Discord equivalent. Itโs just ideas at the moment, though; 0 lines of code.
It's to tickle those kinds of ideas that I keep bringing this kind of thing up.
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That is so civilized. Meanwhile in the US they just eliminated the free electronic way to do your taxes.
Not to save money. So that you either have to do the form by hand OR pay one of the many "services" to do your taxes.
Why doesn't that make more people as angry as it makes me? I suppose most people still use the services. And it's just $100 bucks or so, going to whoever and NOT the government.
@futurebird @silvermoon82 @billiglarper not to upset you more but here in za for the last 3 years i haven't even done my returns. i get a notice from the tax man they're ready for review, i have a quick look, and then do nothing. a few days later the refund is in my bank account
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@futurebird @silvermoon82 @billiglarper not to upset you more but here in za for the last 3 years i haven't even done my returns. i get a notice from the tax man they're ready for review, i have a quick look, and then do nothing. a few days later the refund is in my bank account
@mensrea @silvermoon82 @billiglarper
There is *no reason* why it couldn't work this way in the US. Or rather there is no rational reason other than a deliberate ongoing pressure to make all government services and interactions terrible lest the people start liking anything about the process.
And the people who say "we need to privatize* it" are often behind the poor service, and deliberate Obfuscation.
*Think of the last time you were on hold. Are private companies "better"? No.
